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B series handle tuning

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I'm flying the B standard, looking to get the vent later on. I understand the basic of handle tuning, closer to the handle on top more lift, father out more reverse and brake. I notice on the DVD John mentions a general setting of fourth knot from the end on the top and last knot out on the bottom. But from reading through the posts, it sounds like a preference for the top is third knot from the end and close to the handle knot for the bottom. So....two questions, what is the general preference for handle setup you all have on the B, and the second, I'm looking for a loose thumbnail guide for handle setup, depending on wind or other variables. I do know personal preference probably is the rule, but until I have that experience, a loose guide would be very beneficial to a beginner, thanks.

Bill

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Up at 3am today, 6:45am flight to Seattle, then on to Tokyo for 12 days... Back on the 11th, then to Canada on the 12th... Going to spend time with a friend there, and fly with the locals.

Working on the new Kitelife site throughout my trip. ;)

Thankfully, after that, I'll have 2-3 weeks at home before my next event.

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Melanie ... your on a thread with Sailor, Choccy and me and you went Off Topic before us... Wow didnt see that ever happening!

But your right .. whats up John are you using Sailors alarm clock?? (if you watch his posts they are nearly always at 5am or there abouts)

while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it :)

1. Yup, surprised also (I'm always getting told off) :lol::innocent:

2. Well I'm guessing Sailor isn't getting up to feed his revs so it must be some other quad life..... nayyyyyyy (?)

3. Guilty as charged, gripping handles: its either me or the kite... kite wins: worse case was last Saturday :blue-confused:

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... while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it :)
Quite right. Once should tenderly guide with your thumbs, gently control with your top two fingers, and sensually caress with your ring and pinky finger (I think this is what they have been learning in Wildwoods during what they term 'rev games'). You don't grab it like a chicken's neck!

Are yes, 1500. Time for my afternoon nap me thinks.

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Melanie ... your on a thread with Sailor, Choccy and me and you went Off Topic before us... Wow didnt see that ever happening!

WOW!! I'm in the club!!

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WOW!! I'm in the club!!

Congratulations. Your first?

BTW and TOT, would your personal statement not work better as "Cogito Ergo Sum"? Or even, if you will excuse me ravishing the grammar, "Sum sum"

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Congratulations. Your first?

BTW and TOT, would your personal statement not work better as "Cogito Ergo Sum"? Or even, if you will excuse me ravishing the grammar, "Sum sum"

Thats why he gets so early ..... to read his 'Latin for Dummies' :kid_devlish:

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I've been pretty successful with conveying the "touch" to pilots thus far, with at least 15-20 minutes of hands-on coaching... But applying the understanding, that is wholly up to the individual.

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Look at John trying to get this thread back on topic....just as I was doing so well!!!

Sailor, I appreciate the advice but I am from Tennessee and one would get shot around here for using Latin!!

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this has turned into quite a learning thread for me, glad I started it. John, I don't sail, but coming from the dual line world, I relate all this to light wind flying with either my UL's or SUL's, generating lift and momentum with either walking backwards or gentle pumping of the arms. I think all the light wind dual line flying I've done has helped me for the lighter grip on the handles as a beginner quad flier, the finesse involved in light wind flying. I think I'm getting the general idea of your handle setup with more brake and how you compensate with forward and backward movement, and as it all relates to light and heavy wind. Good stuff, thanks!

Bill

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John/Felix ... I know from my sailing days that light air sailing more then anything is about 'feel' and I know for some people it is just something you cant teach ... do you think its the same with this type of skill/technique?

Seems to me its like a lot of sports (sailing, driving etc etc) the top guys always seem to have 'soft hands' or a light touch and respond to the feedback they get through the controls ... while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it

Lightness of touch is 'it' and as John has said, hands-on coaching can only go so far.

Feedback tells you when the sail is optimally 'inflated'.

Be it a strong breeze or a light one the actual movements that the flier 'needs' to make may actually be very similar. There may be a debate about handle tuning. I would certainly want to put on the brakes in a strong breeze!

Felix

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Sailor, I appreciate the advice but I am from Tennessee and one would get shot around here for using Latin!!

Hello Sailor

It could be worse, with a name like Jeremy I would steer well clear of Alabama as well. :kid_devlish:

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Hello Sailor

It could be worse, with a name like Jeremy I would steer well clear of Alabama as well. :kid_devlish:

Oh yes. The car decoration had crossed my mind, as had the road sign, and the petrol station, and the steer on the roof. I feel it politic not to go into that subject further!

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Oh yes. The car decoration had crossed my mind, as had the road sign, and the petrol station, and the steer on the roof. I feel it politic not to go into that subject further!

'Nuff said.

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This late to this thread but. I read all that went before. I'm new to Rev flying and for the most part only watched others fly them. For that mattter I'm new to kites. Its been a year since I got my first 2 liner. To the point. I had the opportunity to fly not just pick up some handles flop the kite on the ground a couple of times and walk away fast. With the owner of the kite saying come on back its not all that hard. It was in the outerbanks and the wind was kickin like 18 to 40. I ran into Mr. Le Masters and got 5 min lesson and started to fly. With the wind gusting and about 20mph. I never did crash. The kite had a ton of brake and I had no problem in hover turns and single spins no problem. Invert flight not a problem. This is not tricks flying but just some slides and big turns. climbs, spins and dives and no crashes.

I attribute that to set up on the handles. Every other time I touched a Rev in the past it was absolutly for me uncontrollable. I put Mr. LeMasters kite down after about 5 min. Thanked him for his time. I walked around for a few min trying to figure out what had happened. Thought maybe it was the high wind or just a fluke. I was talking to Cath Shook about it and she handed me one of her basket weave beauties and walked off. At first I had a hard time getting the kite off the ground It took all the up I could give and then some arm movement. The wind was still in the 20's and it was rainning. Again the kite had a ton of brake and I had to tilt the handles back in order to get forward flight but hovering and turning were not a problem. Never out of control but not always in complete control I had no crashes. 45 minutes and soaking wet and no mishaps. More of the same turns stops spins landings some invert and 20+ wind. Now all I have to do is figure out how to set up my new to me B series standard to fly with that much brake. I think if I had not flown kites that weren't set up as well I'd not have a Rev now. Thanks

Randyr

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One thing I did to all my B's was on the bottom pigtail I tied a knot between the standard and the bridle knot, that adds a bit extra. Another thing you can do and I tell this to all new flyers, on the bottoms of the handles make a knot 1/2" away from the ring cut off the rest burn the end.

Closer to the bottom = more brake again, then all you have to worry about adjusting is the top lines which makes life less confusing instead of having to adjust 4 lines.

Don't be afraid to let the bottoms of the handles swing way fwd, most people grip the handles like they are holding on for dear life squeezing will just make the kite come down and get you frustrated.

That alone gives my kite so much brake at times I have to give the top lines a quick tug to get it air born, but again thats allowing the bottoms to swing right up.

In time you will get your own feel and handle hold but the best advice is relax on the grip your not jumping the grand canyon.

Hope that helps, Oh and if you like don't cut off the excess bottom tag end until you have tried it and like the results, It works for me and may not for others but if you do think about it adjusting 2 lines does make a little more sense then fumbling with 4.

My 2 cents :kid_smartass:

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All that advise from a guy in New bedford. Thanks! I was born in New bedford and lived on Purchase St. Then moved to Dartmouth and attended Dartmouth High. Now in Va. and flying kites. Thanks for the help.

RandyR

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I know I'm late.

I'm flying with top leaders that are 2 inches longer than the std B handles. (flew JB's Rev in Lincoln City) and have cut off the outer length on the bottom. I fly on the farthers knot on top and the closest on the bottom.

Believe it or not I'll fly that same set up indoors. After flying in 0 wind yesterday on 15' 50# line with my B std. with the 2 wraps in, doing up and overs, 360's forwards and reverse with the flattest single, double and triple axles I've performed so far I'm happy with the set up and don't think it'll change no matter what the wind is like.

I know others have their prefrences, but I'm starting to wonder if flying any other way is just because those don't wanna deal with learning another way.

I mean the kite is capable of everything you could throw at it set up that way. And thats an inch more than what John Barresi is flying at. At least as far as the handles are conserned. I think he said he has shorted up the top lines a little too. I can't do that as I rotate my lines to keep them all the same length.

Dean

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tuning is a personal matter,

so first determine where on the handles is the most comfortable position for your fingers or hands to rest!

Second, the top leader length is determined by the distance between the two attachment points,

the longer the handles are overall, the longer the top leaders will also be. You want the tops to be just short of the other attachment point on the bottom. The "snag" happens when the bottom flying line catches on the top leader, clip or flying lines. Additionally, the longer the top leader is, the further out there you can safely reach withOUT grasping the raw spectra (a slow-to-heal pinky finger cut, right in the fold!) for 3D flying.

A neutrally tuned handle setting should "feel" the same, regardless of the overall handle lengths being compared,

equating to the same flight dynamics and using the same flying line equal lengths.

Third, how do I actually tune a kite for today's wind conditions?

Turn the kite so the leading edge is resting on the ground (inverted), . . .

keep shorting the brake lines until the kite will back-up this way, to waist or shoulder high, rock-steady,

(you may need to add energy in very low wind conditions by walking backwards or sweeping your handles towards your knees from a waist-high starting position).

In very high wind conditions

you don't EVER want the sail "square" to the wind, even on maximum forward drive, instead you want the wind bleeding off of the leading edge (YES, leaning backwards!)

I prefer 100# hi-test bridle line for my leaders,

it's a thinner diameter with smaller knots and a stiffer modulus. It's also much easier to tie and untie (means fewer knots overall!) I double it and then only place a knot onto one of those two legs. Generally the top leader is 3 or 4 times the length of the bottom leader. For example one fist-full of bottom equals 3-1/2 fist fulls of the top, using the "that looks about right" measuring method.

When everything is exactly as I like it

I add a second knot on the top leaders, back about an 1-1/2 inches to use for newbie lessons and for one of my local club-member mates who always complains I have too much DOWN,.... you know who you are bud!

All the fine tuning is done on the bottom leaders, knots are about 1/2 an inch apart, or there aren't any at all, except the one I placed there doing the tuning stage inverted as detailed above.

There's no big industrial secret folks, the best performance comes from keeping your equipment in top condition, checking and re-checking that everything is perfect should become a habit!

I'm upset if folks don't think my kites are flying better and my tuning feels superior in flight to the factory's stock setting. Oh well, at least it feels right to me.

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I take my hat off to all that chipped in on this topic (+1 to all), should be compulsory reading for all newbies. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the various and differing opinions and just wanted to say thanks.

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With all the discussion about which knot to use etc. Start at the beginning - how long is the top leader? Where

is the first knot tied - starting from the handle end? 3", 4"??? how far apart do you tie the rest of the knots?

Its difficult to know where to tie my lines if my knots if I don't know the dimensions. I have my first knot about 4"

from the handle, then every knot after about 1". About right??? I have about 8 knots in my leader. Seems to be

enough for me.

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Length - top leaders as long as distance from top attachment point to bottom attachment point ( or real close)!

Bottoms - I use the factory pigtail with a knot 1/2 way from handle to end knot!

First knot on top leaders - can vary, but starting from the handle 3-4" is about good!!

Knot distance - Again varies from person to person, but 3/4 - 1" seems to be popular!

If you've got leaders with 4" from handles and 8 knots 1" apart, sounds like you got things handled!!

The whole idea is to have the ability to adjust your kite to different wind conditions!!

Experiment and Enjoy!! kid_devlish.gif

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I'm glad this topic has been kicked up on the ranks. It was verry interesting material to read.

Even tho I fly only for 3 weeks, I flewn always whit bit more brake. For me it felt easyer to stop and hover that way. I make the typical beginning mistake holding the handles to tight. smiley-blushing.gif Thats probably the reason why I found it rather hard to brake and reverse. I can move my wrist way easyer upwarts than downwarts. So I strarted adding more brake to compensate that problem.

After reading this topic I know I can even ad a bit more brake, have to relax my hands and fingers and must learn to move a bit to help the kite.

Thanks again to the peoples who made this nice educative topic in 2008. sign_kitelife.gif

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