Rev Newbishness

[kairusan]

I can very happily state that I am the proud new owner of a red, white, and blue Rev 1.5 (my first 4-line kite) -- and that I'm extremely grateful that the kite was supplied with that durable, humongous SLE rod thing. Because when I took the thing out for its first flight, I crashed repeatedly into the ground. I'm something like a 20-year veteran of 2-line stunt kites, starting with a Peter Powell clone, an Avenger, and a Spinoff back in the ancient days, and it's been a very, very long time since I had the experience of crashing kites repeatedly into the ground at high velocities. It's wonderful that Revs seem more than durable enough to stand up to the kind of abuse that I am sure to deal out for a few more flight sessions as I gradually learn to stop instinctively pulling the handles instead of tilting them when I want to turn, or push my thumbs forward, not further back, when the kite is inverted and headed straight into the ground.

Maybe things will be easier in lighter winds? My first session featured some nice 25+mph gusts that made the kite fly extremely fast and pull like crazy. I suppose it was probably a bad idea to fly a quad-line for the very first time in such high winds, but I've wanted to try a Rev for so long, I couldn't wait.

Also, I must've spent about 45 minutes untangling the lines prior to my first flight. Any tips on how best to unwind those things? I attached them to the handles first (red pair for the top lines, black pair for the bottom) and then unwound them, but it took forever to untwist and untangle them before they could be hooked up to the kite. The instructions seem to suggest you should loop the lines around your groundstake first, unwind them, separate them into pairs, and then attach them to the kite/handles. Is that the best way to go about it?

On the whole, I found my first flying experience to be very exciting and fulfilling despite all my newbishness. There were moments -- not many of them, and none were very long, but there were indeed moments -- when I had some degree of control over the kite and could make it go backwards, forwards, and spin on its axis. It's a far cry from what I see people doing in all those Rev videos on youtube and such, but it's a start, I suppose.

[AldenMiller]

Been there, crashed the kite, didn't get a T shirt...

There's quite a few discussions on tangled lines and how to put them away to keep from tangling. Take a look around the forum, I'm sure they will show up.

Congrats on your first Rev. Let us know what part of the world you are in so we can get the milk and cookies sent over.

-Alden

[Stephen Hoath]

Welcome to the Dark Side.

You'll be pleased to hear that it gets a lot easier in lighter winds. If you get a chance try and find some local fliers and have a chat with them. That should send your learning curve through the roof!

As for the lines, there are lots of different ways of doing it so try them all until you find one that suits you best. (there are lots of helpfull posts here alread and I am sure someone will post a link directly) Or you could just save time and do it my way I place the tracers for both left lines together and gently tie an overhand knot. The same with the right hand. Now place these ends through the winder so that the loops are loose at the top. Next wind both pairs of line onto the winder at the same time using a figure of eight action. Don't worry about separating your lines with your fingers, if they are unwrapped when you start they will be unwrapped when you have finished. When you get to the kite, take the lines off the kite and tie them as the other end. You should find that you have about the same amount left for both lines and wind the remainder onto the winder.

To take your kite out again attach your lines to your kite (leading edge down and kite lying flat on the ground down wind) unwind your lines and attach your handles. DO NOT TRY AND UNWRAP YOUR LINES UNTIL YOU HAVE THEM ON YOUR HANDLES. Now sit your kite up and the wind pressure should pull the lines apart, if not you may have one or two twists and maybe one or two twists in each pair. But, if the lines went away unwrapped, they will come out unwrapped.

As I said there are other solutions out there so try them all and see which one suits best.

Keep us posted.

[sailor99]

I place the tracers for both left lines together and gently tie an overhand knot. The same with the right hand. Now place these ends through the winder so that the loops are loose at the top. Next wind both pairs of line onto the winder at the same time using a figure of eight action. Don't worry about separating your lines with your fingers, if they are unwrapped when you start they will be unwrapped when you have finished. When you get to the kite, take the lines off the kite and tie them as the other end. You should find that you have about the same amount left for both lines and wind the remainder onto the winder.

No, no, no. That is, like, so the wrong way! Oh I seem to have found myself in the wrong conversation.

[rcom714]

Welcome aboard!!!!!

If your first experience was as positive as you say it was then you're already most of the way there.

You'll be saying goodbye to that SLE before long and using 3 & 4 wrap rods, then you'll really begin to "feel" the kite as it should be.

25 plus winds........where are you located?

Oh yeah......fair warning.......very addictive kites these Revs. Hope you got deep pockets!!

[Aerochic]

I think SLE rods are perfect when you're starting out simply for the abuse they take. As other people will tell you when the crash factor wears off you'll want a set of 3 or 4 wraps for sure! That being said! Welcome to the forum! You'll find lots of helpful folks here.

I'll point you to some helpful threads & articles about lines. Once you become an expert at untangling, I'm sure you'll find the method that is right for you! Keep that positive attitude, it'll help you go a long way!

http://www.kitelife.com/magazine/issue55/r...s55/content.php

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?showto...l=tangled+lines

http://www.revkites.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=488

[kairusan]

Thanks for the advice and the warm welcome. Revs seem to have a very strong community built around them, which is awesome, since it seems to me like fewer people are interested in stunt kiting now than back in the 1980s. (Perhaps they all went into kitesurfing? Some local spots now seem to be positively choking with them on windy days...)

I'll give the solution posted above by Mr. Hoath a try today, as it sounds like the most promising way to speed up the setup/takedown process, and I will check out the other threads posted above. (Thanks!) Fortunately, building the kite itself is extremely easy; no tightening wingtip spars or adjusting bridles, just pop a few bungee cord things in place and you're ready to go. So once I figure out how to deal with the lines, this should be a very easy kite to get set up.

One other problem I had was the endcaps popping off of the main spar after several crashes. I'll search around the forums here to see if there's a way to minimize that, although I strongly suspect the answer will be something like, "don't crash so much."

And yes, my long term plan is to get a set of race rods, some 4-wrap, and a vented version of the red-white-blue 1.5. I've read all about the benefits of the alternate framing systems, but I want to stick to the more robust SLE for now while I'm still learning how not to abuse the kite.

[dean750]

As for the lines being tangled and twisted, I have gone back to dual line winders. Two lines on each card. Attach the lines to both handles, put em on the stake and let out both sets at the same time. It seems to be a little quicker in getting the kite up in the air and alot less headache. At most I might have to turn the handle once or twice to get any wraps out of the lines. But all four are never twisted.

Dean

[antman]

take that SLE rod out and get a 1/4 size 3 wrap rod set .. youll love it alot better

[awindofchange]

What I do for my lines:

I leave my lines attached to the kite and the handles all the time. The only reason you will need to take them off is if you are switching from one kite to another but seeing as this is your only Rev (so far he he he...) then just leave them all hooked up!

A dear friend of mine told me: If the lines go into the bag straight they'll come out of the bag straight. - meaning that if all four lines are hooked up right they will stay that way.

Ok, for the process. I will start by putting the kite away. I land the kite, hook my handles onto my kite stake and then take my bag and go to the kite. I break the kite down and roll it up, lines and all. I then slide the kite into the bag with the four lines running out the end. Tuck the sleeve under your arm and grab your winder and start winding all four lines up to your stake. When you get to your handles, carefully slide your winder down as far as possible into the kite sleeve, then carefully pick up both handles and make sure they don't spin like crazy and carefully slide those down into your kite sleeve above your winder. The handles might stick out the end of your bag about an inch or so, no prob, just pull the bag tight and your done...oh yea, don't forget your stake.

Now to set up next time:

Just do the exact opposite. Carefully pull your handles out of the bag and hook them onto your stake by the bottom of the handles. Then carefully pull out your winder and start walking backwards unwinding your lines. When you get done unwinding, slide your kite out and assemble. Then set your kite up pulling against the stake, walk back to your handles and with one or two simple twists you should be ready to fly!

Super easy system and line tangles are a thing of the past!!!

Good luck, keep that SLE rod for a while, and let us know how it goes.

[dean750]

I'm sceptical (how ever you spell it) but I'll give that a try. Wait, no I won't. I'm not a newbie, what was I thinking.

This does sound like a good idea. If you remember to rotate your lines like you do your tires on your car. With this method remembering which line needs to be switched with which is not a problem. Just go corner to corner. Bottom to top, top to bottom. Just criss cross everyother flight. I was just giving crap at the begining. I never thought of this approach but it makes sense when you think about it. As long as you ROTATE.

With using the dual line method it's about as simple, but your not constantly hooked up. You simply switch cards, (mine are yellow and black.) Normally the left line (dual line) is black marked so this is my black card. So on the Rev I unreel the line the first time with a black line on top to the left white on bottom. Oppisite on the other side. Next time I reverse it to where the black is on top on the right. Next time I put the yellow on the left black on top and just keep the rotation going.

It's like your flying inputs, you get the hang of it after a time or two and thats just what works. My way takes a minute or 5 more than most to put away, but by then I justify the time by being tired and lazy and that makes sure I never have tangled lines the next time I fly.

Like flying theres a bunch of arses on here (opinions as to what works for who) Until you give it all a try you will continue to have the same problems over and over. I cannot reel my lines up all four at a time without getting different lengths and twists, tangles. I do recomend since you have dual line experience to use two seperate cards for your lines. It's so darn easy.

Dean

[sailor99]

The end caps popping off sounds like it maybe a combination of too many too hard landings and the bungies being a little slack. Try adjusting the knots a bit.

[LS Kite Stakes]

Welcome to the dark side! I also appreciated the SLE rods, although I managed to break one on my first flight. (beaches with rocks are not the best place to learn!) Watching those videos and then trying to fly a Rev is a humbling experience, I am still learning myself. About 10 hours of air-time so far, and the hover is starting to happen!

[kairusan]

Well, I took the thing out yesterday to the nearest place with sweet, sweet winds, and it was an absolutely wonderful experience. No line tangle problems this time; I was up and running in less than 10 minutes, leaving hours and hours for flight time. About 45 minutes in, everything just "clicked" for me all of a sudden, and I found that I was able to control the kite with reasonable precision without even thinking about it. By the time I was ready to go home (just as the sun was setting), I was able to trace somewhat deliberate patterns in the sky, and even dive-stop and hover a little, and reverse-launch (but reverse flight proved relatively elusive; it was difficult to keep the kite balanced and it always seemed to want to turn over and go forward). Crashes were relatively minimal at this point, and I had no problem with popping endcaps and the like as a result — but I certainly have a whole lot more to learn.

One thing I saw on these boards that I tried with profound success was to tie some knots in the bottom pigtails and fly with more brake setting. I started out on the default setting, but once I began to get that instinctive feel for how to control the kite, I gradually worked down to a higher brake setting (about 3/4" versus 3" on the top). I found this made the kite much snappier and more responsive, and, of course, much easier to dive-stop and reverse launch. Before my next flight, I'm going to add some more leader line to the top so I can experiment with higher brake settings.

Man, I can't wait to fly this thing again. I haven't been this excited about a new kite in...... months!

[sailor99]

You are so on the right path. Keep learning, experimenting and having fun. Welcome to the dark side!

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

Hi Kairusun

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the Darkside.

You have already been told that changing the leading edge will be a good move (I was going to suggest an exp leading edge as your next purchase but someone else beat me to it) and it has even been suggested that once you reach the point where you are not crashing every five minutes that your existing leading edge will become obsolete just like the training wheels on your first bike. My advice is don’t be in too much of a rush to totally get rid of your SLE’s I have two sets in my kite bag and though they don’t come out that often I wouldn’t be without them when its howling. Last week I thought I had lost them and I was gutted.

You have also been advised –

As other people will tell you when the crash factor wears off you'll want a set of 3 or 4 wraps for sure!

The implication is that you don’t already have one, the leading edge that came in your kite, is in all probability, 3 wrap. I really don’t want to get too pedantic here but, sorting this out now will avoid a lot of confusion later. Rev I.5 spars come in two sizes std at approx ¼” diameter and SLE (Super Leading Edge) at approx ½” diameter. The wrap count is an indication of the wall thickness. What is being recommended above is replacing the thicker SLE for the more flexible ¼ inch spars. Somewhere on this forum there is a very good topic that explains the how the different spars are classified, I’ve been looking for it to post a link but unfortunately I can’t find it.

One thing you may not yet fully appreciate is that unlike most duel line kites it is possible to reframe a Rev in the field in a matter of minutes and by changing a frame, or even just the leading edge you can totally change the feel and handling of your kite. It may not make a lot of sense now but a very popular combination, in the right conditions, is the frame from an sul (or a Race Frame) in a vented sail, yes I know it doesn’t make a lot of sense but trust me it is sweet.

[kairusan]

Yeah, I think it's going to be a while before I start thinking about changing out the leading edge for something else, but I do appreciate the advice on the various spars. I actually did come across a couple of posts resembling the one you might be talking about, both of which were very informative.

Indeed, the ease of changing out kite frames was one of the reasons why I decided to get into revs. Initially I thought, wow, wouldn't it be nice to be able to just buy a standardized spar for $12 or so and just slot it right in if something breaks — no measuring, cutting, gluing, detaching/reattaching bridles and t-fittings and such. But being able to swap frames easily as wind conditions change sounds like it will end up being an even more useful feature as my spar breakage probabilities slowly decline.

But yeah, the SLE I have has the same labels on it as my vertical spars — "Ultra Light" with the three feathers. That kind of surprised me, as I thought the SLE rods were all the same. Perhaps when I get a vented 1.5 down the line (seems inevitable) it will ship with a 4-wrap SLE? In any case, even if the 1/4" frame sets are as uber as everyone around here seems to be saying they are, I don't imagine I'd ever want to just get rid of my SLE.

[steveb]

the SLE I have has the same labels on it as my vertical spars — "Ultra Light" with the three feathers. That kind of surprised me, as I thought the SLE rods were all the same.

One of my Vented SLEs came with The Advantage - Stiff spars, another has Revolution - Equipped, but the Revolution Ultra Light are the most common.

[Jeepster]

Somewhere on this forum there is a very good topic that explains the how the different spars are classified, I’ve been looking for it to post a link but unfortunately I can’t find it.

Bob,

Is this the post you are looking for? It's JohnnMitchell's post number #8648

Cheers,

Tom

My personal observation of the stiffness of the Revolution Rods for REV series is listed below. I have not used any equipment to measure the stiffness.

• Revolution Rods stiffness
  soft to hard .. Diameter ........ Labeled .................. wraps ... Available for
  ? ................. 3/16" ..... The Advantage - 1.5 ............ ? ....... Rev No-Wind
  ? ................. 3/16" ..... REV II (Professional Only) .... 2 ....... REV II
  ? ................. 1/4" ...... REV II (Ultra Light) .............. 3 ....... REV II
  ? ................. 1/4" ....... Race ................................... ? ....... 1.5
  1 ................. 1/4" ....... Professional Only ................. 2 ....... 1.5 - I
  2 ................. 1/4" ....... Ultra Light ........................... 3 ....... 1.5 - I
  3 ................. 1/4" ....... Revolution Equipped ............. 4 ....... 1.5 - I
  4 ................. 1/2" ....... Ultra Light ............................ 3 ....... 1.5 - I <-- SLE
  5 ................. 1/2" ....... Revolution Equipped ............. 4 ....... 1.5 - I <-- SLE
  6 ................. 1/4" ....... STIFF .................................. 6 ....... I
  

We know that rods also have different recover times meaning the Race rod will recover quicker from a bend then the "Professional Only" rods. Does anyone have information on this.

How about weights of all types rods and weight variations within the same type of rods. Does anyone have any really accurate information on this? Measurements to the milligrams and tenths of an ounce would be helpful to all.

[steveb]

How about weights of all types rods and weight variations within the same type of rods. Does anyone have any really accurate information on this? Measurements to the milligrams and tenths of an ounce would be helpful to all.

That sounds like a good rainy afternoon project for me. I'll post results as soon as I get it done.

[Lauranyyfan]

Hello and welcome to the family.

Here's a few suggestions to help you along. Practice... Practice... Practice... Just as important is to "Own Your Hover" to quote "The Man" (JB). Control is key to anything you do. If you start getting out of control, go back to a hover and regroup. The slower you can control any move you do, the more in contol you actually are.

Sounds like you're on the right path, good luck.

Finally, I have found that reading this forum over and over has helped tie things together; imho.

Have fun!!

[kairusan]

By Own Your Hover™ I assume you must mean something like "learn to keep the kite in a static hover position facing up, down, left, right, etc.," because that, frankly, seems like a rather hard thing to do! When I initially (after a dozen crashes or more) gained the beginnings of control over the kite, I realized that hovering (especially reverse hovering) took more fine control than anything else I was able to do. I could only hold a hover whilst upside-down for a few seconds; the kite seemed to want to flip back over. It seemed to want a much finer degree of control that I'm currently capable of to keep it in line. So I imagine if I could get the inverted hover down pat, I could do just about anything there is to do with this kite before long.

I just think that's going to take me a LONG time. But it will be fun!

[rcom714]

By Own Your Hover™ I assume you must mean something like "learn to keep the kite in a static hover position facing up, down, left, right, etc.," because that, frankly, seems like a rather hard thing to do! When I initially (after a dozen crashes or more) gained the beginnings of control over the kite, I realized that hovering (especially reverse hovering) took more fine control than anything else I was able to do. I could only hold a hover whilst upside-down for a few seconds; the kite seemed to want to flip back over. It seemed to want a much finer degree of control that I'm currently capable of to keep it in line. So I imagine if I could get the inverted hover down pat, I could do just about anything there is to do with this kite before long.

I just think that's going to take me a LONG time. But it will be fun!

Humblingly speaking here..........owning thy hover to me, is more all about finding the proper balance of the handles in your hands. When you find the point of center between forward and reverse in your hands/handles you will have found how to "own thy hover" And oh what a beautiful thing that is!!!!!!!!

[sailor99]

Not just beautiful, although that is true, it is also the basis of performing almost every other move with skill and control. For example nyone can spin the kite fast, but a true master will spin it exactly around the 'V' in the centre of the sail very, very slowly. Without a mastery of the hover, this would not be possible to learn.

[REVflyer]

that "control" begins with a light, delicate grip that remains comfortable all day long. Tuning the leaders is how to arrive at this place. It is a wonderful experience for old and new fliers. I have friends that immediately adjust my set-up to their preferences. (one of the joys of flying with a group of people regularly, is having knots in place just for them!) Then we get to jump around and fly OPKs. Each of us sets up a single kite and every few minutes we jump to a new experience. Somebody is flying mini's, somebody else has a progressive stack, somebody has made a new sail or changed something and everyone wants a turn to compare it's effect.

I'm very lucky to live in an area where we can get together without a huge hassle for anyone. We try to move the flying locations around the DC area so more folks can join in. Each location has unique advantages, maybe it's a fantastic spot for spectators, but parking is an outrageous hassle. Maybe we can take over the whole field, but nobody's there to witness our activities. Which would you prefer?

I'd fly over a concrete and broken glass filled parking lot to get spectators, go ahead stick me in between the trees and power lines. It's a lot more fun to have people watching. Heck, that's how I got involved in the first place! REVs rule!

[Lauranyyfan]

that "control" begins with a light, delicate grip that remains comfortable all day long. Tuning the leaders is how to arrive at this place. It is a wonderful experience for old and new fliers. I have friends that immediately adjust my set-up to their preferences. (one of the joys of flying with a group of people regularly, is having knots in place just for them!) Then we get to jump around and fly OPKs. Each of us sets up a single kite and every few minutes we jump to a new experience. Somebody is flying mini's, somebody else has a progressive stack, somebody has made a new sail or changed something and everyone wants a turn to compare it's effect.

I'm very lucky to live in an area where we can get together without a huge hassle for anyone. We try to move the flying locations around the DC area so more folks can join in. Each location has unique advantages, maybe it's a fantastic spot for spectators, but parking is an outrageous hassle. Maybe we can take over the whole field, but nobody's there to witness our activities. Which would you prefer?

I'd fly over a concrete and broken glass filled parking lot to get spectators, go ahead stick me in between the trees and power lines. It's a lot more fun to have people watching. Heck, that's how I got involved in the first place! REVs rule!

Paul,

You are soooo right!