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Quad-line virgin


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Hello from England. I've had a lot of fun with generic dual-line stunt kites over the years, but after looking to go to the 'next level' I happened to stumble upon the quad line Rev kites in American online shops (even though I'm British) and on Youtube and the fun factor looks exponential. I'm blown away by the available flexibility in controlling the kites (four [string] dimensions instead of just two), the idea of being able control the kite around and along any axes, regardless of which way it is facing. The aforementioned being less doable with the dual-line stunt kites as you tend to be restricted to going nose-forward most of the time, you can't easily invert (reverse) the flight path, stop the trajectory dead, slide along any angle, or do 360 wheeling on the spot, as it were! It's great to see what you may be able to achieve on the quad-lines with extensive experimentation and practice.

Here in the UK the prices are anything from £164 ($265) for a basic EXP through to £270 ($436) for a top-end B-Pro, or even up to £370 ($613) for a Blast or B-Pro-Extra.

I'd be flying it mostly on the sandy coastline of Whitby (North Yorkshire, England) with its variable North Sea breeze - anything from 5 to 25mph at any one time - but the average is usually between 6 and 15mph or so... I probably wouldn't fly it greater than 20mph anyway or I might end up being pulled across the water all the way to Norway. ;)

When inland, the wind is 4-12mph or thereabouts.

As such, from the specifications on the Revkites website for each kite, I'm thinking a Mid-Vent with 2+3-wrap frame and 90lb line would likely be the best all-rounder?

While I've been grabbing all info I can get my sticky hands on, some of the terminology is new to me. When I was reading up about the switchable frames - http://revkites.com/...tion-spars-rods - I wondered why frames are referred to in terms of 'number of wraps'? I'm guessing the rods are sheets of carbon fibre rolled into tubes rather than being solid all the way through, therefore fewer wraps make for a lighter (if more vulnerable) frame?

At this stage I would only like to get just one really good kite to last me, would it be entirely foolish to jump straight in and get a B-Pro mid-vent? The craftsmanship and customisable colourizable design certainly is compelling.

As handles aren't included, and that I have no prior experience of using any, can anyone recommend all-rounder handles to go for? The myriad of available handles is perplexing to the unacquainted. If it bears any relevance, I guess I have slightly smaller than average hands for a guy - female-sized hands almost - but very tactile (I'm a pianist)! :blushing:

Can any UK guys perhaps tell me where they shop for Rev kites and accessories? So far I've only found Kiteworld and Go-Kites.

I've been watching John's YouTube tutorials on the correct way to handle the kites when assembling/disassembling them etc.. Are there further instructions included with the kite when you buy it, on how to properly tether the lines to the kite, configure the bridle (if needed) etc.?

So many Q's. Thank you if you've read this far, I apologise for writing so much, I didn't intend to! Running before walking and all that. :) The Rev kites look inspirational.

Many thanks.

~Timo

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That's why I spend so much time answering questions on the forum. it's good to share the joy and so rewarding when people acknowledge it.

Had the most wonderful two hours flying today. Everything seemed to 'click' into place and the overall control felt a lot more natural and intuitive. Was much more confident in controlling it and mak

Thank you all, making good use of everything you've thrown at me. Was able to take the kite out today and put everything I've read and seen into practice, and, my, what a difference. Firstly, figured

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You know, maybe start with a full vent then. With black race rods (instead of 2 wraps), 3 wraps, and 4 wraps. Midvent would probably be great for you too, but you'll most likely end up with 3 kites then, and you only wanted 1. You can take the full vent down lower than you'd think, if you put the rr in. (don't have wind meter.) But you won't want to learn with the rr. Wait on those until you've got control, no crashes. Learn to fly on the 3s or 4s. Doubtful you'll break a 3, as long as your leading edge is not bending in a scary way. I love my vented kites best of all. They'd be great to learn on if you've got the wind for it, and it sounds like you do. It'll seem like it needs more wind than it does at first. But no worries, once you get skills, you'll find it flies in a lot less wind than you might suppose. Same goes for all the revs.

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I just remembered I clipped this from somewhere, because people are always asking about wind ranges. Like SS, I never know the numbers, just the feel! Sorry, since it's a clipped note I have to post it as a link, can't paste. The stated wind ranges given by the company are what is POSSIBLE, whereas this is what is REASONABLE.

wind range suggestions

Still doesn't tell you how low you can go with race rods in a vtd, but hey it might be helpful. If you get race rods, be sure to get the black ones. There are green ones, and sparkly ones too, but the blacks are the ones that stand it for 2 wraps, weight-wise pretty close.

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very nice Katrina.. thank you. now i just need a mid vent. a zen and xtra vent.... and i will be good!

I agree about not starting with race rods! they flex so much that as a newb(me) you loose some control... especially with vert/hor slides. I have broken one in the spar location when the wind picked up and unexpected landing. I did like the 4 wrap. I think as my skills improve the race rods will be great, and if you go with a full vent they are lighter than the 2wrap and will allow you to fill the sail better in low winds.

my recommendation: full vent... 4 wrap and RR. in low wind use 4wrap spars and RR leading edge for more durability landing and better sail filling!

good luck

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Thank you all so much for your replies and PMs with additional info. It's all been slowly but gratefully devoured. :throb:

As there's seemingly no silver bullet (apart from buying all of them!) I became a little overwhelmed as to which to buy (Std vs Mid-V vs Full-V) so I've taken a few people's advice on here and have been looking to source a second-hand Rev to get a feel for the kite this year before splashing out on a B-Pro next spring/summer season.

I'm completely inland (no beach flying) until next year so looking to grab a Std (SLE or B-Series) as a benchmark to practice on and get a feel for. Originally intended the kite to fly at the coast during the main holiday season but just... cannot... wait until next year to be at the coast to fly one! Absolutely itching to have a go and (slowly) learn the ropes.

Found a second-hand B-Series that's for sale but seems it's been customised - the B-Series usually comes with 3-wrap and 2-wrap frames, but this has three SkyShark P200 rods and two of the original Rev 3-wrap spars, and has 80ft or so of either Dyneema (or) Spectra lines (he can't recall). I've heard of SkyShark before, and it seems they are favourable brand, but am unsure as to what the P200 rods are equivalent to in 'Rev' terms? 3-wrap? Race rods?

Tyvm. :) Happy Halloween! ^•^

~Moggy

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Customised is probably a bit generous - more like a repair to some broken spars.

Skyshark are okay, but IMO don't seem to have the same return spring.

P200 is the closest equivalent to 3 wrap.

If you get the kite, try to keep the LE either all one set of spars, or have one of the 3w in the middle, with SS on the outside - It'll all depend on which spar has the ferrules.

You may find the lines to be a little spongy - if you can to LPG it will stand you in good stead for any future purchase.

Enjoy if you win it.

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i just got some p400 rods from skyshark. and i think they are equivelent to a 4wrap. i think p200 is equal to a 2 wrap.

Close...but no comparison. You will feel the difference.

There is more deflection in the SS.

I have a chart somewhere..... B)

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Flex is like everything else, ..... depending on your conditions and preferences (for your own style) you may want more or less. I use p-90s for the leading edge and 2 ply/wrap tapered spar on the verticals for my no-wind needs. There's a certain time when it's huge advantage!

I run Skyshark down-spars called "black diamond" or if you can find 'em... A stick called a "response 12 must of the time. You cut them down to fit you application. I carry lots of different tubes, very few of my kites are stock out of the shipping container. You can change things easily and compare mwhich way you like best.

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I'm back! smile.png After starting this thread I was a little stumped as to what to do, it gave me a lot to think about. Acting on the advice given, I decided to forego a brand new B-Pro and instead get hands-on experience with a second-hand Rev so I wouldn't have to worry so much about beating up a brand new top-spec kite whilst learning. Also felt a second hand kite would be a good idea in order to have a feel for what a Std sail feels like in use, and therefore what variants (Std, Mid, Vent) to get at a later time, rather than getting a Mid-vent Pro and later finding a Std and a Vent would've been a better choice, as per Kat's advice.

It's been a long time - not intentionally (work, and so few Revs coming up on ebay, etc.) - but I finally have my first Rev! :D

post-4097-0-82533000-1368540807_thumb.jpg

It's an SLE, with additional ultra-light LE spars, 13" handles and 80' LPG line. Immaculate condition. Never realised how big it would be, it's about twice the size of me, haha. I'm only little.

It didn't come with the DVD - can it be got online, or is it necessary? I've watched all of John Barresi's generous Rev tuts on Youtube and also subbed to Kitelife for his further tutorials. I've been watching his vids over the many months, he's amazing. I think it's most definately fair to say the kiting community would be a much poorer place without JB and you guys. smile.png

In true English fashion, it's raining, and the forecast is rain all week, so looks like I wont be able to fly as soon as I'd like. blue_confused.gif Absolutely itching to get out there after all this time. So brushing up on tuts, anything I can find.

One question regards the handles, particularly the leaders. Do they look OK (photo below)? Reason I ask, I notice other people's photos have much longer leaders, or different lengths on opposing sides (top vs. bottom), for example. However I'm guessing my handles were part of an original SLE ready-to-fly package so should be ok for starters (and adding extra lengths is merely for further tuning)?

post-4097-0-74252900-1368542729_thumb.jpg

Thank you for all your help. smile.png

~Møg

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Hey, congrats Mog! Hopefully the weather cooperates soon :)

The leaders you have now will get you flying, but as your familiarity with the Rev grows, you will want a set of adjustable top and/or bottom leaders - basically longer in length, and with knots tied about every .25 inch to .75 inches down the length of the leader, starting from maybe 3 inches from the handle. This will give e you the ability to fine tune the handling of your Rev - this is a must! Make adjustable leaders ASAP! Check under the modifications section of this forum - plenty of leader topics there. I would link you to them but I'm typing this thru Tapatalk.But, for now, your Rev looks ready to fly :)

Enjoy!!

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Hi,

If you have seen all of JB's videos there is little extra that the DVD add.

I would definitely recommend making up longer top leaders on your handles, it makes life so much easier. You can use any old string within reason or even untie the top leader and reuse it as a single rather than double. The extra length on the top (brakes) slow the kite down which might make launching harder but make the kite easier to fly.

You might try your first flight(s) using the SLE but the 3 wraps are not that fragile.

Good luck with your first flights. You might consider taking JB's tutorials with you if you are able.

Cheers

Stephen

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In true English fashion, it's raining, and the forecast is rain all week, so looks like I wont be able to fly as soon as I'd like. blue_confused.gif Absolutely itching to get out there after all this time. So brushing up on tuts, anything I can find.

~Møg

Hi there Mog, STACK (Sport Kite and Competitive Kiting - the official body of the sport ) are holding a competition this weekend at Dunstable Downs. The Downs is the home flying field of about 10 rev pilots of a wide range of experience and lots of toys. If you can make it down i am sure that there will be no shortage of people around to fast track your learning experience.

Good luck.

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OK - set aside the SLE tubes for now and use the ultra lights (3 wraps) to learn! The extra flex works for you! Just remember that if everything fails and you're gonna crash no matter what - Give to the Kite, step forward and take all the drive out of the kite! Let it crash, just gently!

Yes, make some new top leaders ASAP, hers's a link to see what you are shooting for - http://www.revkites.com/forum/topic/4409-my-leaders-your-thoughts/ ! They allow you to set up the kite in a more neutral fashion! You have the factory leaders on now! If you were to look at the handles offered with the "B" package, you'll notice that they have longer top leaders supplied! Most of us use even longer top leaders yet!

If you can go to a festival or meet with other fliers, that's highly recommended!!

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Thanks guys, will try and grab some thin tent/guy rope/string or similar very soon for customising leaders.

One thing I wanted to ask, given that the UL was mentioned over the SLE. How does the SLE differ to the UL LE in terms of flying characteristics? The SLE is clearly a lot larger and heavier, I initially thought it would therefore be slower and better to learn on?

Dunstable Downs looks a phenomenal place Stephen! Unfortunately I live 100+ miles north and have no transport to get there. :|

I'm currently in Whitby again (far north east), so will be able to get on the beach very soon. :D

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The SLE tubes are stiff, so stiff that they hardly flex and that's the problem! The sail is cut to allow for some flex and create that "ball" of power in the center! Much less control results!! The UL (3 wrap) spars you have, are plenty strong to learn on!! Just remember to Give to the kite if you're about to crash, don't pull!!

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Ty all. :)

Took it down the beach a few days ago for a test flight but then found the guy who had the kite before had completely messed up the bridle on one side, was completely asymmetric so had to bring the kite home and undo the knots he had made on the one side. Seems he didn't know how to configure the double loop (where the horizontal and vertical bridle lines are attached) and he tried to compensate by wrapping the lines and tying a whole other bunch of knots instead.

Managed to get it sorted that night by untying and untangling everything, and then watching JohnB's bridle attachment tutorial on youtube (thanks again John!!).

Took it down to the beach the following day but just as I'd set it up the wind dropped to 0mph!

The following day it rained non stop, and now for the last 48 hours we've had 30-40mph winds!

Patience is a virtue. I WILL get it up someday!

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Finally managed to get it up for my first flight today, ultralight frame throughout, the wind was reported as 10mph. Extremely shaky at first, ditched it a good few times (giving to the kite really helped, Wayne, thankfully no ditches were heavy as a result). Furthermore, that 80' walk is sure a long way when a few people are watching (I even picked the most isolated beach and location to minimise this, alas still the embarrasment)!

Eventually got a feeling for the controls and was able to keep it in the sky and even land it gently on its feet mostly toward the end.

Soooo different to dual line kites. The controls are polar opposite! My brain was completely mashed for a while. It still is, I can't explain how I managed to keep it up in the sky, it felt more intuitive just to ignore my preconceptions of what should do what and instead used my fingers to feel the subtle pull of each line. As JB says it will all be about finding, building and retaining muscle memory.

I now have even greater respect (if that were possible) for the pros who make it look so easy on youtube!!

Furthermore, I can see how this can be very addictive! A bit like learning a Rubik's cube.

The wind has dropped to 5mph, the lines were sagging (had to move backwards a lot to generate upward thrust latterly) so had to call it a day today.

But the kite is great, worth waiting for!

Ty all :)

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Finally managed to get it up for my first flight today, ultralight frame throughout, the wind was reported as 10mph. Extremely shaky at first, ditched it a good few times (giving to the kite really helped, Wayne, thankfully no ditches were heavy as a result). Furthermore, that 80' walk is sure a long way when a few people are watching (I even picked the most isolated beach and location to minimise this, alas still the embarrasment)! Eventually got a feeling for the controls and was able to keep it in the sky and even land it gently on its feet mostly toward the end.

Don't be embarrassed we've all done it, and as for the 80ft lines stick with them for a while, you may already be aware that when we fly together we tend to use 120's and there are some on this forum who will try and tell you you need to splash out and buy a set ASAP, 'cos if the ain't 120's they ain't worth diddly. My feeling is that you will learn much quicker on the 80s and not just because you will spend less time walking and more time flying. Though the kite will appear faster because the window is smaller, the kite will be more responsive and feedback will be more positive, i.e. you will get a much better feel for the kite.

Soooo different to dual line kites. The controls are polar opposite! My brain was completely mashed for a while. It still is, I can't explain how I managed to keep it up in the sky, it felt more intuitive just to ignore my preconceptions of what should do what and instead used my fingers to feel the subtle pull of each line. As JB says it will all be about finding, building and retaining muscle memory.

To get your head round this one you don't have to forget the "pull left to turn left, pull right to turn right" of duel line flying, because you will need that, later but for the time being you need to put that technique to one side and learn to fly with your wrists. In its simplest form, flying duel line is like steering a wheeled vehicle, it goes in the direction you point it. You steer a Rev more like you steer a tracked vehicle, you you turn it by adjusting the drive on either side of the kite and the kite turns around the slower side, push your left thumb forward and the kite will turn left, push your right thumb forward and the kite will turn right.

You may well know all this and understand it, but to fly you need to learn it, so it becomes second nature, you need that knowledge in muscle, not brain. In truth, Flying a kite is about more than just pointing it in the right direction but until you have that sorted you are not going to progress. A good exercise is to Tuck your elbows into your sides, and imagine you have a strap around your chest and upper arms then you have to fly with your wrists, it isn't easy but it will help you to learn the technique. Once you have that you can release the elbows and relax and play with the slide because true Rev flying as about more than just pointing the kite in the right direction and many moves require a combination of techniques.

Above all the best piece of advice I can give is, "Enjoy the Journey".

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As Bob has said, the "push/pull" of dualies is not needed right now! You will use it later, but to a much subtler amount! We used to joke about giving noobs a pair of handcuffs to wear, as they learn to fly! Impossible to use that "push/pull" style!

Simple beginning exercises - take off 5' high, hover, land on both tips. Multiple times in a row! Got it? Go higher and do the same hover and landing routine. Practice til you can launch to the top of the window and back it down under control, landing on both tips, almost everytime! You start to feel the kite telling you what it needs to straighten out!!

Enjoy the lifelong ride!!

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The Survivor said it a lot more concisely than I did and he's set you another good exercise, but don't let us bully you into doing your homework, the exercises are good but don't over do them, a few minutes at a time is enough, remember this is supposed to be fun and if I becomes a chore you won't do it properly and you won't learn from it.

I really struggled with the inverted hover but one thing I learned in my struggle to find it was, never argue with the kite you have to be patient with it, if you feel it resisting you let it run feel where it wants to take you then coax it back an try again.

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