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Quad-line virgin


Moggy
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Hello from England. I've had a lot of fun with generic dual-line stunt kites over the years, but after looking to go to the 'next level' I happened to stumble upon the quad line Rev kites in American online shops (even though I'm British) and on Youtube and the fun factor looks exponential. I'm blown away by the available flexibility in controlling the kites (four [string] dimensions instead of just two), the idea of being able control the kite around and along any axes, regardless of which way it is facing. The aforementioned being less doable with the dual-line stunt kites as you tend to be restricted to going nose-forward most of the time, you can't easily invert (reverse) the flight path, stop the trajectory dead, slide along any angle, or do 360 wheeling on the spot, as it were! It's great to see what you may be able to achieve on the quad-lines with extensive experimentation and practice.

Here in the UK the prices are anything from £164 ($265) for a basic EXP through to £270 ($436) for a top-end B-Pro, or even up to £370 ($613) for a Blast or B-Pro-Extra.

I'd be flying it mostly on the sandy coastline of Whitby (North Yorkshire, England) with its variable North Sea breeze - anything from 5 to 25mph at any one time - but the average is usually between 6 and 15mph or so... I probably wouldn't fly it greater than 20mph anyway or I might end up being pulled across the water all the way to Norway. ;)

When inland, the wind is 4-12mph or thereabouts.

As such, from the specifications on the Revkites website for each kite, I'm thinking a Mid-Vent with 2+3-wrap frame and 90lb line would likely be the best all-rounder?

While I've been grabbing all info I can get my sticky hands on, some of the terminology is new to me. When I was reading up about the switchable frames - http://revkites.com/...tion-spars-rods - I wondered why frames are referred to in terms of 'number of wraps'? I'm guessing the rods are sheets of carbon fibre rolled into tubes rather than being solid all the way through, therefore fewer wraps make for a lighter (if more vulnerable) frame?

At this stage I would only like to get just one really good kite to last me, would it be entirely foolish to jump straight in and get a B-Pro mid-vent? The craftsmanship and customisable colourizable design certainly is compelling.

As handles aren't included, and that I have no prior experience of using any, can anyone recommend all-rounder handles to go for? The myriad of available handles is perplexing to the unacquainted. If it bears any relevance, I guess I have slightly smaller than average hands for a guy - female-sized hands almost - but very tactile (I'm a pianist)! :blushing:

Can any UK guys perhaps tell me where they shop for Rev kites and accessories? So far I've only found Kiteworld and Go-Kites.

I've been watching John's YouTube tutorials on the correct way to handle the kites when assembling/disassembling them etc.. Are there further instructions included with the kite when you buy it, on how to properly tether the lines to the kite, configure the bridle (if needed) etc.?

So many Q's. Thank you if you've read this far, I apologise for writing so much, I didn't intend to! Running before walking and all that. :) The Rev kites look inspirational.

Many thanks.

~Timo

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Lots of good advice, but I think the best was "have fun". I'm sure as you gain confidence you'll find lots of ways to practice your skills. I, like many, struggled to get the inverted hover. I kept "falling out" of it. The kite would start rocking and the next thing I'd spin out of the hover. I found it much easier to hover facing 5:00 or 7:00 for some reason. Once I realized that I just crept up on the 6:00 position and it worked.

Maybe one day I'll get to fly with someone who has real skill and I can take a big jump in skill level myself. I seem to live in a dead zone for kiting. If you get a chance to fly with other Rev fliers, it can only accelerate your learning curve.

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A couple of things you have said make me think that maybe you should be flying with a bit more break, though it is hard to be sure without a face to face.

As a newbie I would expect you to need a setup with a bit more drive than experienced fliers use. But it sounds like you are having trouble holding the kite back. You do need to be able to control the movement of the kite around the window, but Rev flying can be as much about holding position as it is about moving, especially when you start flying width others.

Most experienced fliers prefer a setup where with their wrists in a comfortable position the kite is more or less drive neutral. Though for a newbie this setup can be a bit daunting its far better to have a little more drive to start with and to reduce it as your confidence grows.

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I wouldn't use guy rope cord hour leaders it may be a bit springy see if you can get a few meters of bridle line from a kite trader.

Failing that try a habadashers ideally you need a cored braided line. You need something tightly woven and personally I prefer something quite stiff what ever you do don't buy curtain cord it will have loads of stretch in it. And buy more than you think you will need, you will be surprised how much you loose to each knot.

Oh, and make up two identical sets its always good to have a spare set ready when one goes.

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A couple of things you have said make me think that maybe you should be flying with a bit more break, though it is hard to be sure without a face to face.

Took the kite for another flight today... As I'm new to the feeling of flying a Rev, and that (to me) the kite feels more 'fragile' than dual kites, I think I overly engage drive on the kite when there is a sudden avalanche of wind in order to try and relieve stress on the sail itself, rather than me yank on the brake and allow it to take the full brunt of the wind and drag me (or I walk) forward for fear of damaging the sail (or very occasionally I also lose control and the sail can go ape-poo at high speed, ho ho). The wind inland is very unpredictable, one moment it's 3-4mph, then next it's a 15mph gust lasting a good 15 seconds or so.

I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs, although this is tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving of buffeting than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.

Or is 10-15mph too much for a full sail? ... That said, initially seems I need at least 10mph to get it up.

The left and right controls are fully figured out now though. smile.png

While the technicalities are still all very confuzzling at this stage, learning is enormous fun.

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Took the kite for another flight today... As I'm new to the feeling of flying a Rev, and that (to me) it feels more 'fragile' than dual kites, I think I overly engage drive on the kite when there is a sudden avalanche of wind in order to try and relieve stress on the sail itself, rather than me yank on the brake and let it suddenly take the full brunt of the wind and drag me (or I walk) forward for fear of damaging the sail (or very occasionally I also lose control and the sail can go ape-poo at high speed, ho ho). The wind inland is very unpredictable, one moment it's 3-4mph, then next it's a 15mph gust lasting a good 15 seconds or so.

Don't worry too much abut this carbon fibre is way tougher than you would think, they make F1 cars out of the stuff the drives crash them at ridiculous speeds and then walk away. If I am flying and someone shows an interest and starts asking questions I will often offer them the handles to try. If I have already told them how much they cost the response is often "no I might break it, then I will drive it l/e first into the ground "doubt it" they are tougher than the look

As for letting the kite run in a gust, this one is actually counter intuitive, speed translates to pull if you let it run you will put more strain on the kite and your arms, don't ask me to explain the science, it messes with my head too.

I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs. It's tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.
I used to let it run to the top of the window, to see how close to directly above my head I could get it it won't go over. I think you have said in earlier post that you were worried about that, it just lays on top of the wind, still take my breath away.
Or is 10-15mph too much for a full sail? ... That said, initially seems I need at least 10mph to get it up.
Well if I had a vented kite I wouldn't be flying a full sail but if that's all you have, I always tell newbies not to worry too much about the kite, as I said above they are tougher than they look.
The left and right controls are fully figured out though. :)
Good.
While the technicalities are still all very conflicting and confuzzling at this stage, learning is enormous fun.
Enjoy.
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I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs, although this is tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving of buffeting than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.

Bear in mind, the sail of a loaded Rev isn't actually flat... Watch this:

It curves and uncurves as load varies, making it far more versatile than any dual line kite in turbulent wind. smile.png

It may be flatt(ish) if you're using the SLE, but 98% of the forum members here will agree, 1/4" rods (2 wrap, 3 wrap, 4 wrap, race, etc) are the way to go.

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John B, on another note - I have got to say - a huge thank you for all your tutorials on Kitelife (and youtube) - namely assembly/disassembly, line management (I unravelled and hooked up my lines today when setting up and there literally wasn't a single twist in them!), equalizing, setting up the bridles (something I needed to do when I got the kite second hand after the previous guy had it all knotted up), hovers (which I'm currently enjoying learning), flat relaunching (reduces the embarassment of the walk of shame, and increases the flying time) to name a few. They really have been incredibly useful to a solo learner/flyer like me, every one of them (as no instructions came with the kite). As well as your inspirational flying vids which almost single-handedly got me into Revs after stumbling upon them. We salute you!

I have to second this.ani_notworthy.gif

I see a lot of parallels between us, Moggy. I've always flown solo...not by choice, but location. I'm also completely self taught, except for some great video lessons... Another parallel that I think we might have in the future. After flying my full sail SLE for about 2 hours total, and getting a pretty good handle on it, I ordered a B series vented. I see many more Revs in my future.

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Had another couple of hours today. This thing is literally off the scale. You can really throw it around. Super sharp 90º turns. Stop it dead. Back it up. Do 2160º spins on the spot (not quite bicycles yet, I'm cheating by pushing one thumb forward and pulling the other back!). Or turn it into a graceful albatross and gently float around the window with the lightest of finger touches. I have never had anything like it, it's crazy.

The sun was high in the sky when I flew, the shadow of the kite swooping amongst the grass seemed surreal, like the wings of huge eagle. Made me jump at first when 'it' came lunging towards me, thought it was an incoming dog or something! Found afterwards you can even fly the kite without looking at it, just fingertip control.

Will make leaders soon, as I've found when I'm braking or doing hard-stops the lower wing(s) very occasionally turn in on themselves (like a flic flac). I find I'm giving too much of an input to the brake lines. Or maybe I'm heavy handed, or too quick, or using too much wrist range. Will work on it. Managed to find some lines from an old cheap stunt kite I had, they don't look like they'd stretch but they might not be as strong as the LPG lines so I'll double them over before knotting up. Will be interesting to try out the different knotted lengths (thanks StrokeSurvivor!), see how they may affect technique and flight.

And yes, a B-Vented is on my wishlist, Rex! Was 11mph again today and I was trying to work on various hovers, but the gusts made it a little lively. Vented would be useful when at the coast too. I've noticed a lot of the videos I've seen of Revs at beaches and team flying are vented and they look real smooth.

Thank you all. hat.gif

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. . . . .

I'm cheating by pushing one thumb forward and pulling the other back!). Or turn it into a graceful albatross and gently float around the window with the lightest of finger touches. I have never had anything like it, it's crazy.

. . . . .

No you're Thor that's a perfectly valid technique, that's how you get good by combining techniques.

It sounds like yo are making real progress, well done enjoy.

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Hi Moggy,

Welcome to the Darkside. You have a lot of good advice and you have the UK dealers who will look after you. We fly every Sunday at Herrington Country Park opposite Penshaw Monument if you are in the area please come and say hello. When you start flying it is often better to fly with others. It makes it more enjoyable. I have always wanted to fly next to St Hildas and we have a few events not too far away from Whitby.

Small world!

Happened to be walking along a coastal footpath into Whitby on Saturday, and was surprised to see two custom Revs flying high on top of the cliff by the old Whitby Abbey - an enormous surprise for me as in my 34 years I've never seen anyone flying Rev kites before!

Made a detour, had a wonderful chat with the pilots, but have only just realised after doing a quick search on the forum we'd actually already spoken!

Was a pleasure to meet you Vince and Chris (of Team Fusion). smile.png

What made it all the more ironic was I was so close to bringing my Rev1.5 to fly on the very same spot without knowing you were there, but we were making our way to Whitby for dinner and forewent (foregoed?) taking it. I flew on Whitby beach just the previous day, the tide was right out and the wind was perfect, absolutely loved it.

Fantastic to see the pro's doing it how it should (I'm still working on hovers and reverse-inverts!). The vented looked so smooth. Baz's anodised no-snag handles looked great too, just about to order a couple of marble stakes from him. Loved the custom team prototype you were using. Always fancied the idea of a Jolly Roger (with a "blow me down" one-liner or similar) or a Dracula-inspired sail to fly at that very location.

Really enjoyed the chat, hope we meet again. Give us a shout if you happen to go again, I'm often at that location as my parents have a static caravan a mile away on the clifftop (Saltwick Bay). smile.png

~Timo

aka Mºggy

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