Jim Foster Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Ok inverted hover working fine, but how about inverted flying. (ie) LE down, and moveing kite to top of the window inverted, the kite always wants to right its-self (ie) spin around LE up, anyone else trying to fly inverted from bottom of window to top in a stright line, or am I trying to do something that the kite is not designed for ?I have pigtails on my handles, and have found a happy place for brake. Any sugestions ? When in an inverted hover, slowly apply brake. Very slowly. Another method is to fly forward to the top, stop, turn your kite over and start down very slowy, then stop, and apply brakes until the kite starts back up toward the top. Best words, Don't give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 What Mr. Jim said. As I'm sure you've figured out the inverted hover takes a light touch and some attention. Flying in reverse is pretty much the same. Very slowly apply more brake. When you notice a side rising you simply let that hands pinky move slightly forward. Right wing left hand, left wing right hand when inverted. I slightly bounce the brake lines when attempting to fly in reverse. To me it's just me reacting to a rise on one side or the other. But it looks like I'm bouncing the brake lines back and forth. It keeps the kite more neutral for me anyway. Still working on this myself. But it's something you could try anyway. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Foster Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 The main reason I said "Don't give up", is that, just like riding a bicycle, your brain has to learn how to keep things straight. You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand"..................... By that time, things have already ended. You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 ... how about inverted flying. (ie) LE down, and moveing kite to top of the window inverted ...Any sugestions ? QQ, It looks goofy ... so you have to fly by yourself or have a thick skin ... but I had a break through when I moved the tips of the handles about three feet apart. I held them at waist height with the bottoms tilted outward about 60 degrees and the tops spread as far apart as comfortable ... three feet for me. What made me try it is that I found the kite to be very stable for awhile at the end of a dive stop. What I noticed was that the middle of the kite became heavily loaded and the bottoms of the vertical rods were pulled closer together. By holding the handles apart, I was able to partially duplicate this situation and pull the vertical tips more towards each other ... thus causing the center of the kite to billow. Maybe I was simply on the verge of a mental break through, but I immediately noticed that I can control the kite in the inverted position ... yep, when the winds are just right, I can even back the kite up the window. The "goofy" method helped me learn the touch that Jim and others talk about. Now I'm working on looking a little more acceptable in public by moving the handles closer together. Oh, don't forget that there is absolutely no "one method" of learning to fly this kite ... keep trying different things until something clicks. And, by the way, I think the ultimate secret is practice, practice, practice ... a little each day is much better than a full day every other week. If you try the "goofy" method, please give me some feedback on what you find. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor99 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 As previous posters have implied, there isn't really a magic fix all for flying inverted to the top of the wind window. Once you have inverted hover off to pat you just have to get out there and practice the inverted climb, and again, and again, and again............ One small trick that may help would be to slowly walk forward as you climb. It takes a bit off the wind pressure off the kite and this helps you climb without over-control wobbles and tip flips. Both the latter are real problems with inverted flight, and both result from the pilot (you!) trying too hard and doing too much - ie over control. So, real easy with the controls, spread the bottoms of the handles apart and walk gently forwards. Give it a go and keep at it, it will happen! Once you have got all that under you belt, inverted turns and circles should be next on your agenda. But that is for another week.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone in Shoe Bob Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 The good news is, that once you have the inverted hover off pat it is actually easier than hovering l/e up. The main reason I said "Don't give up", is that, just like riding a bicycle, your brain has to learn how to keep things straight. You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand".....................By that time, things have already ended. You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle. I call it "getting it into the walking and chewing gum part of the brain". I cracked it by repeatedly sliding the inverted kite across the window about 6 - 8ft above the ground, then just before the edge fliping the leading wing tip over and sliding back the other way. It feels quite relaxing and it does wonders for the muscle memory. Typo corrected 24 July 2008 to satisfy humor Sailor99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor99 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 it does wonders for he muscle memory. Too much information Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand".....................By that time, things have already ended. You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle. Guess thinking about what your doing could get in the way of learning. If your practicing over and over and over (because you've got that "I'm gonna get it" bug you'll have the time. Relaxe and do your thing. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuadQrazy Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Thank you for the pointers, and I do need more practice. I will try more inverted baby steps, but still trying to get my head around the left is right, and right is left, to be more natural. I like the idea of bouncing the brake, I have never thought of that, and will have to give it a go. Looks like more fun flying in my future, and practice, practice, practice. Thank you all for your the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitezen Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Thank you for the pointers, and I do need more practice. I will try more inverted baby steps, but still trying to get my head around the left is right, and right is left, to be more natural.I like the idea of bouncing the brake, I have never thought of that, and will have to give it a go. Looks like more fun flying in my future, and practice, practice, practice. Thank you all for your the info. I found that looking at the line, handle to kite, while inverted, builds the muscle memory needed for inverted flying. Make small moves, and watch the kites movements, while looking at the line. That is how I got a good handle on inverted flying, oh, and lots of practice. Most important thing to remember; good practice methods lead to good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I hope something someone in here has said helps QuadQrazy. My reasoning for talking about knowing which hand controls what wing inverted is that like when you learn to fly forward you know that left brake turns left, right turns right. Upside down is backwards. So for most people learning it's something to pay attention too. I still occasionally think left and give more brake on the right which means I loose my invertedness for a second. I fly alot inverted. When not working on vertical flight in reverse my favorite move so far is a sliding pinwheel about a foot off the ground. For me the move has taught me alot about knowing your hands and what does what and when to do it. We'll both get, I have Rev faith. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 A tip... Once you master it, an inverted hover is the most stable position in turbulent conditions, or when the wind drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 That it is John, that it is. When moving backwards in light wind like I have too, I go to the top of the window and turn it over inverted. Then I just walk forward. The Rev inverted falls MUCH slower than right side up. Sorry, was day dreaming of light wind flying, sorry I got off the subject. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Had a perfect day flying today. Had my Rev 1 set up and my fathers MEFM beside it. Bounced back and forth between the two and had a blast. Worked on bouncing the brake lines (a slight tensioning of the lines alternating back and forth) and am now flying vertically in reverse. Consistantly. Now to figure out how to do circles in reverse. That still seems impossible at the moment. I don't know what others think but I finally figured out how to stabilize reverse flight horizontally today. My hands always rotate with the kite, so the top hand equals the top wing. I always seem to over control in reverse flight that way. Today I kept the top hand horizontal with the kite but the bottom hand was vertical. I noticed I could lock the bottom hand in place and slightly bounce the top brake line and fly perfectly in reverse. Instead of working both hands to control the Rev I only had to slightly work the top hand. I almost couldn't over control it this way. Plus it seems both horizontal and vertical, (especially vertical) that the bouncing kept the sail loaded. It seemed like the Rev actually gained speed by the bouncing of the brake lines. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilabner Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Last time out, Midwest winds (all over the place 5 ta 12 mph) 15" handles, 4 knots in from the kite on top, 1st knot in from kite on the bottom. Straight up hover is okish, well a lil shakey maybe but that's just a practice, practice....thing INVERTED HOVER!! it's all over the place: Do I need to change handles, my knot setting or just keep working it ( practice, practice.... ) Edited December 11, 2009 by liabner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 If you set up the handles so that you need a brisk snap, thumbs towards the chest to launch LE up. You might even need a step back to make sure of the launch. This will mean your top lines are quite a few inches longer than the bottom ones. (seems to go against anything sensible you would do when setting a Rev up) You will find, if you give it a bit of time to get used to it, the kite will respond much better. When you are inverted however this means you have to do very small inputs or the kite will flip over quite easily till you get used to it. My inverted hover is still not too good, however is much better with what is accepetd as "a lot of brake" in the setup. This set up might not work for you, seems to be working for me OK, you will find it is the way a LOT of folks set thier Revs up. To give you an idea of my setup. My top lines are as long at the throw on B series handles, the bottom lines are only about 2" long. Typically I will fly on the second or third to last knot on the top, I suppose this would make my top lines about 8 to 9" longer than the bottom (might actually measure tham some Day, might be more like 7 to 8" not quite sure). Then I re adjust for the wind. Or how I feel on the Day, or the phase of the Moon, Tide etc. etc. However at the end of the Day, you fly on what makes you feel right. Do try all types of settings though, and dont just dismiss it as wrong. Give it a while to see if it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Happy to try and provide some more ideas... Can you describe your basic hand/arm position when you're trying to hover inverted? Also, what kite and what general settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilabner Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 However at the end of the Day, you fly on what makes you feel right. Do try all types of settings though, and dont just dismiss it as wrong. Give it a while to see if it makes a difference. Will do thanks Baloo Gettin' ready to do a double post here, hope I don't gauld anyone with this action, but I haven't figured out how ta do a multiquote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilabner Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Can you describe your basic hand/arm position when you're trying to hover inverted?Also, what kite and what general settings? hand/arm position: hands close tagether (6 inch apart), about belly button high, elbows close to da side. kite and what general settings: OH MY Kite wise I was all over the place dat day, but here goes SLE (SUL)2 wraps, SLE Standard (3 wrap), B Series Full Vent (4 wraps). Those are the only ones I was tryin' ta do da inverted hover on. By set up I'm guessing you mean rods? Thanks Much Ab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauranyyfan Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hi Liabner- Once you find that your leader adjustments and hand postition are comfortable and correct, there's still a lot of practice required to get the hover down pat. Paul LeMasters had given me great advice for this; I do it all the time as one of many drills to hone my skills. Here goes: Pick a point off in the distance, in front of you; not too high off the horizon... maybe a two or three feet (1 meter, roughly). It could be a roofline, tree line or whatever. Now, raise the kite up (in reverse) and hold it at that level for as long as possible. Eventually, you'll want to hold it there for a few minutes. Your hands will constantly be doing micro adjustments to "Own Thy Hover". As you build the muscle memory for this, it will become easier to do. OK, so with some experience of my own, I've added to his drill. Now, pick a point higher up and do the same thing. Eventually, work your way to the top of the window. You will now be able to fly to the top of the window, in reverse, with total control! If you are over inputting at any point, the kite will flip in toward you. Just back off a drop on the input of your thumbs going forward (slightly) to keep it from flipping. Hope this helps! Have fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hands sound right, sail and frame set ups sound okay as well... How about your handle (knot) settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Oh, and dont be too rigid with thinking that you have to keep the handles vertical. I find that different kite positions, my hands rotate too. I would have to go out and fly to confirm it, however I am fairly sure when the kite is inverted the bottoms of my handles are pointing outwards, away from each other. Not sure why, I think it has to do with helping my mind work out the upside down ness of it all. Hope this is good advice, I am sure someone will chip in if not. Then do what I tend not to. Practice, practice etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVflyer Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 your bottoms rotate out like that so you don't stab yourself in the crotch with a sudden flailing motion! it's one of the first involuntary movements MEN learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 your bottoms rotate out like that so you don't stab yourself in the crotch with a sudden flailing motion! Golden truth, right there. That, and it allows the handles to move forward and back freely, outside your waist and hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Golden truth, right there. That, and it allows the handles to move forward and back freely, outside your waist and hips. Best not to get stuck by your ear either! <grins> Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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