mebeatee Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I was just looking at some of the comments from people who have flown this kite and it appears that comparisons are generally being drawn against 1.5s, mainly pros. However many of the observations are what I would say about a well set up I with race rods in - precise corners, stuck in the window in light air, slower,etc. It almost seems unfair to compare it to a 1.5 as that is a totally different beast. It's almost like saying a 1.5 pro is much more precise and powerful than a II but a bit slower. Well of course it is - the real comparitor for a pro is a B series. Any chance of some comparisons against a decent I without Mylar, perhaps a sedwick for instance I absolutely agree. My all time fave Rev to fly is a Sedgwick 1 with a 2 wrap frame on either 50ft. or 80ft of 50lb. line in a whisper of wind. I`m imagining THIS would be a fair comparison to flying a Zen...and NOT ANY kind of 1.5. A standard 1 would be a good comparative kite as well. I would suggest the no to low wind flying technique(s) used in keeping any 1.5 sul and/or the Zen in the air could be comparable but not the kites themselves. A 1 is a 1, a 1.5 is a 1.5, and a 2 is a 2...simple as that. Similar of course, but way different. It seems not very many of the folks here have 1`s or 2`s in comparison to folks who have (only) 1.5`s. bt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I would be very interested in a back to back comparison with probably a Sedgwick using Race Rods or 2 Wraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVflyer Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) I would be very interested in a back to back comparison with probably a Sedgwick using Race Rods or 2 Wraps. Baloo, I just had a few minutes on the thing using a borrowed line set. However i did tune the handle set-up to my own preference. The biggest difference side-by-side?, the center of the Zen's sail is much more pronounced. Whereas the regular Rev 1 has a very small fabric portion between the two "halves" of the sail, the Zen's center portion size is scaled-up from the B-Series. It's more neutral in flight, compared to a Rev1. (less of left & right feeling?, . .... more of a transition between the two halves). My comparison is to how it feels on the ends of the lines and I'd say "it's a heavier B-Series type of feeling". It's the best comparison because it is the Zen's closest cousin. They scaled it up to match a product size that has lost it's luster over the years. Few of us reach for our REv1 first anymore when we arrive at the location. The Zen's leading edge has a significant curve built into it compared to the Rev1, again it's scaled-up B-series pattern that has been used. There's some mass here for you to exploit/creating lift thru momentum, plus a ton of surface area to make it all seem effortless. It's a team kite designed for a dead calm, but with all the structure and strength you'd expect from a REv 1. (I'm not a fan of their indoor kite. The down spars are too close together and the flight controls feel different from the other models, too different for my liking) I owe a couple of Rev 1's and naturally they are framed as lightly as possible. I'm not sure what frame Ben had in the Zen prototype. I'm sure he said it, but at the festival there's so much background noise I missed it. It did not in any way seem highly flexible, so I'd guess a 3 or 4 wrap. It felt heavy on the lines, not a sluggish or unresponsive feeling but a direct-connect type of control. Stapled in any hover position, not stationary in the sky thru tiny wiggle adjustments of the handles. A rock solid connection between the kite and flier. I have spent many long hours customizing my kites for our local conditions through experimentation. I don't need another quad I wouldn't use frequently. I'm not going to carry two bags either! Whatever I buy has got to be so good it can displace one of my other A-Bag favorites. Guess what?,.. I'll find a spot for the Zen, even if I have to bump out a masterpiece! Team fliers will be needing these kites (or praying for improved weather conditions). Okay now, somebody please do a promotional video for Ben, comparing the Zen to a Rev1 with all the other variables being identical! Edited August 19, 2009 by REVflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Baloo, I just had a few minutes on the thing using a borrowed line set. However i did tune the handle set-up to my own preference. <snip> Thanks for the observations. The Zen has a sail area which is larger than the Rev1. That has to be an advantage. The additional area in the centre would, I assume, help in 'forward/reverse' stability and help precision in cornering by easing the 'turning interval'. I had suspected that attention would have focused on the bridle and JB has indicated that this was the case. Having found that a 4 wrap centre combined with 3 wrap 'other' spars was an optimum even in the lightest breezes for the Rev1 I will be interested to learn about the sparing of the Zen. 2 wrap never worked for me and I have not been able to fully assess the Race option yet in the Rev1. I am not sure why a curved leading edge is perceived as advantageous unless it is facilitating sail billow around the verticals and thereby enhancing directional tracking. For some reason I always felt that a 'tighter' sail was more responsive... <grins> Looks like it is foggy again overnight at WSIKF... Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well I couldnt have asked for much more than that cold I. Thanks so much for the comparison. I often go for a Rev 1 straight out of the bag. I love the way it flies, esecially on 50 ft lines. Looks like a Zen might be a serious consideration. My only concern would be how will it deal with the orrid lumpy wind I often fly in. Felix, I will have a Sedgwick with Race rods with me at both Portsmouth, you are more than welcome to borrow it at Portsmouth and give it back at Bristol. Presuming you will be at both events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 <snip>Felix, I will have a Sedgwick with Race rods with me at both Portsmouth, you are more than welcome to borrow it at Portsmouth and give it back at Bristol. Presuming you will be at both events. Thanks for the offer. I already have the Race Rods, just not had the conditions to compare and contrast. I think that I really need to get hold of a Rev2 with Race Rods as well for a complete comparison... <grins> (quite apart from current versions of the Supersonic and Shockwave) Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Got some Rev2 travel Race Rods if you want to try them Felix. You REALY do need to try those Rev 1 Racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Got some Rev2 travel Race Rods if you want to try them Felix.You REALY do need to try those Rev 1 Racers. Looks like another breezy day on Blackheath, Sunday 23rd September 2009 as in the current forcast. I would be interested to fly the current Rev2 with Race Rods... Thanks Felix (PS to self, really must keep up with all this kit <grins> FJM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrunya Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 OK 1 more question for me and this I think may be the BIG factor.What rods are being used in the Zen ?? Are they based on the Silver Bullet design if so I makes sense why this sail fly's so well aside from the upgraded panel design and lower center. After seeing what the Silver Bullets do for a 1.5 sail I can see the same effects (even better) for the Rev 1 size as the sail is much larger. Thanks, Jim To answer one of your questions, when I've been flying the Zens here, Bazzer has set me up with a race rod frame and 2 wrap center, or 3 wrap frame with 2 wrap center. It seems to fly well this way, but I think it is a tad squishy with the 2 wrap center, and I would like to try it later with full race or full 3 and see how it feel. On another note, iQuad did 2 routines today flying the Zens. All the other kites were on the ground, and I was behind them with my camera and tripod. I'll sort through video when I get home next week. I like making you all wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 ... I like making you all wait We - the rest of us not a WSIKF, could probably arrange to have you beaten for this. Just sayin'. Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JynxKites Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 We - the rest of us not a WSIKF, could probably arrange to have you beaten for this. Just sayin'.Bart Count me in! I'll hold 'em... you beat 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 You will have to hold on tight Jynx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor99 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 We - the rest of us not a WSIKF, could probably arrange to have you beaten for this. There is a very strong undercurrent of anger amongst all of us who are not at WSIKF for this teasing from Watty. I think a sound thrashing is the very minimum that justice requires. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 There is a very strong undercurrent of anger amongst all of us who are not at WSIKF for this teasing from Watty. I think a sound thrashing is the very minimum that justice requires. ;) I knew we'd finally find a use for SLE rods! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 That's always been the use for sle rods! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bri Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Come on Watty Lad.Lets see this video.Im busting for a watch of it. Thanks all for some intresting comparisons.Thanks for takeing the time and trouble everyone,its helpfull stuff Watty,wher are youuuuuu BRIAN... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Come on Watty Lad.Lets see this video.Im busting for a watch of it.Thanks all for some intresting comparisons.Thanks for takeing the time and trouble everyone,its helpfull stuff Watty,wher are youuuuuu BRIAN... They are in the sticks. Internet access may be 'difficult'! Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburka Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 One of the ATEMOC team members just sent me a link to a video he put together from the Bogota event. There are a few stills as well as some video of iQuad flying Zens: Youtube Bogota video by Jaime Castro My recollection is that they were flying B Pros at the saturday "pre-festival" and Zens in the incredibly light/difficult wind at the Sunday festival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 One of the ATEMOC team members just sent me a link to a video he put together from the Bogota event. There are a few stills as well as some video of iQuad flying Zens:Youtube Bogota video by Jaime Castro My recollection is that they were flying B Pros at the saturday "pre-festival" and Zens in the incredibly light/difficult wind at the Sunday festival. The link does not seem to be working... Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 The link does not seem to be working...Felix Try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Try Thanks. It works but appears to be looped! Oh well... We'll get our hands on the kites eventually. Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrunya Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 ROFL! I would love to get the video up for you now, but there is no way I would be able to do any sort of video uploading from here. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochic Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 ROFL! I would love to get the video up for you now, but there is no way I would be able to do any sort of video uploading from here. XD Such a tease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 My recollection is that they were flying B Pros at the saturday "pre-festival" and Zens in the incredibly light/difficult wind at the Sunday festival. Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean750 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You know theres going to be some video eventually...... Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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