johnnmitchell Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Then again, I had wondered about 'rolling the grid'! <gins> Only a quarter turn one way, you understand... Felix Do you mean something like the start of this: http://www.johnnmitchell.com/GyD/Super16/archive/early_drafts/diag_diamond_v01g-play.html ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Do you mean something like the start of this: http://www.johnnmitc..._v01g-play.html ? Yes, but that is only 1/8 not 1/4! I'm think that having gone 1/4 in one direction the kites could 180 turn and then do a 1/2! Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 What on earth is a moonwalk? I remember showing the "traveling bicycle" to James Robertshaw at Guadeloupe '97, just before he taught me the Rev axel (during which I sprained my ankle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 What on earth is a moonwalk? The bicycle, cartwheel and "Hadzicki Shuffle" as far back as I can determine are the same, just different names. None are touching the ground nor as far as I can determine the height off the ground does not really matter. The only exception to this was when there was a compulsory figure in the past that specified that it should be a certain percentage of the wind window above the ground. The "moonwalk" is movement in the same directions as above with opposite rotations. Left to right, rotate anti-clockwise. Right to left rotate clockwise. I remember showing the "traveling bicycle" to James Robertshaw at Guadeloupe '97, just before he taught me the Rev axel (during which I sprained my ankle). Yeah, I remember that! You were hobbling along side on one of my shoulders and James brother Carl was hobbling along on the other. Two great REV fliers wiped out for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 So when ever you guys decide what it's called I am happy to say that today I was able to do some passable stationary bicycle rotations for six to eight rotations before it fell apart:lol:. Very satisfactory to see, I can't await for the across the window spins:rev_clockwork:! Isn't it great when they start to come together?! I've noticed mine are becoming far more stable and lower to the ground all the time and I can even stop them, most times, in the direction I want to be facing! Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 The animation for the bicycle is at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16/figures/bicycle_v01.html The animation for the moonwalk is at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16/figures/moonwalk_v01.html The dreamed up alias "Jackson Shuffle" for the moonwalk, is my doings. Sometime I will create an actual website for animated quad figures, something like Super16. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 <snip> I've noticed mine are becoming far more stable and lower to the ground all the time and I can even stop them, most times, in the direction I want to be facing! Bart Bart, I want to be able to stop and 'hold position' at any point in the rotation... I think that this is a key concept. It is also why I like the idea of copying apparently random movements of other kites, not least in the situation of 'very closely' following another kite! Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I still am amazed how you kept within inches of me last year at WSIKF. I thought for sure my erratic movement would eventually throw you, but nope! When the new guy here gets a bit of some simple figure 8's going I'm going to get us flying closer and closer together both to help him with his control and to help me with mine. Perhaps as I continue practice with clockwork turns I will improve the stationary bicycle spin further too and achieve that stop at any position. I'll add it to the list of things. That list just never gets any shorter! Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I still am amazed how you kept within inches of me last year at WSIKF. I thought for sure my erratic movement would eventually throw you, but nope! <snip> That list just never gets any shorter! Bart The wonder of it is that the list does not get any shorter however long you go on. <grins> I just want to find the circumstance where it is possible to try new things! The 100 grid thing has become a 'bit' important to me although I am resigned to the financial obstacle to realising that project. Hence consideration of the Super Sixteen or Super 36 possibilities... Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 The animation for the bicycle is at: http://gyraphicdesig...icycle_v01.html The animation for the moonwalk is at: http://gyraphicdesig...onwalk_v01.html The dreamed up alias "Jackson Shuffle" for the moonwalk, is my doings. Sometime I will create an actual website for animated quad figures, something like Super16. The animations are fantastic! I really like "Jackson Shuffle" as a name-variant for the Moonwalk It reminds me of the poker hand Jack-5, known in the poker world as "Motown" because of the Jackson Five (Jack-'n-5 lol). I would like to see all the animations in one website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 The animations are fantastic! I really like "Jackson Shuffle" as a name-variant for the Moonwalk It reminds me of the poker hand Jack-5, known in the poker world as "Motown" because of the Jackson Five (Jack-'n-5 lol). I would like to see all the animations in one website! You can view animations of the ISK Compulsory figures past and present on the Roy Reed Design website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've been checking it out for awhile now!! Found it in another topic: Reed Design - ISKCB this one says 2009..... Is there a 2011 updated version somewhere else on the web? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khalathur Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 The animation for the bicycle is at: http://gyraphicdesig...icycle_v01.html The animation for the moonwalk is at: http://gyraphicdesig...onwalk_v01.html The dreamed up alias "Jackson Shuffle" for the moonwalk, is my doings. Sometime I will create an actual website for animated quad figures, something like Super16. Thank you! Those are very useful. It's been a while since I've seen one in person and I was definitely picturing more rotation in the bicycle. I imagine a circle circumscribed around the kite and rotating as though that circle were rolling without slip along a surface (regardless of actual altitiude). When I try it, this leaves me pretty well wound up by the time I cross the window. Prewinding in the opposite direction helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thank you! Those are very useful. It's been a while since I've seen one in person and I was definitely picturing more rotation in the bicycle. I imagine a circle circumscribed around the kite and rotating as though that circle were rolling without slip along a surface (regardless of actual altitiude). When I try it, this leaves me pretty well wound up by the time I cross the window. Prewinding in the opposite direction helps. The object is simply to rotate and move across the window in a manner somewhat like the animations. There is no restrictions on how many circles you want to use, nor is there any restriction on the height above the ground. Now in a competition, specifics would be laid down. At present there is no ISK compulsory figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 While thinking about this thread and the Super16 thread, I came up with an idea for a new team figure. Stay tuned, while I create the animation. Then you can decide whether you like it or if it is even feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 While thinking about this thread and the Super16 thread, I came up with an idea for a new team figure. Stay tuned, while I create the animation. Then you can decide whether you like it or if it is even feasible. While fiddling around with this, I found it to be a bit more difficult then I first predicted. However, it is feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revthebest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi, is there somewhere a good video or youtube take of the Cartwheels across the window? I searched but found nothing else but text. Of course the full answer is visit WSIKF THNX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi, is there somewhere a good video or youtube take of the Cartwheels across the window? I searched but found nothing else but text. Of course the full answer is visit WSIKF THNX Go to the videos forum. The first video in the Grand Haven, Michigan festival post (just added recently) has an example of a very good one at about 8:05 in the video. It's titled Great Lakes festival. It's actually a "moonwalk", but when the kite spins in the other direction it's cartwheel. Just noticed -- lokk at the links in SkuPuppet's post about 7 or 8 up from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Fiddled with this again today. Tried to put together the various opinions I took home from WSIKF this past August. I was able to get a rough version going left to right and repeat it 4 times, but I was not able to sort out how I did it. I couldn't do it at all from right to left which is no surprise I have a hard time getting slides to work in that direction too even though I feel I am doing it correct. I couldn't figure out how I was making it work and when I tried to sort that aspect out I was unable to repeat any of it. I'm sure I am over-thinking this, but even breaking it down to the smallest components I could think of it still escapes me. I now consider this the hardest thing I've tried to learn with the kite. I swear it seems like my hands and arms are going to 10 directions at once to make it happen. Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylenc Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Note: in the clock work rotations you time the hands' pushes and pulls to cancel out the side slide and keep the kite in one place in the window during the rotations. For the cartwheel you time the inputs to add emphasis to the horizontal side slide and move the kite across the window during the rotations. It's best to not think about it. The angle of your wrists stay the same during the side slide pushes and pulls to continue the roations while sliding. If you do have to think, focus on the alternating side slide inputs. Exaggerate the hand pull on the wing that is rotating up from horizontal and reduce the pull (push) on the other wing. This puts your hands in the full side slide position when the leading edge is horizontal and a neutral position (hover hand postion) when the leading edge is vertical. Work on upright and inverted side slides, with leading edge horizontal. Also work on ground passes in forward and reverse, with the leading edge vertical. For the ground pass, do reverse flight from edge of window to center and add a 180 rotation at the center of the window for forward flight to the opposite edge of the window. Try to do it smoothly without stopping. Eventually add some slide and rotation together for the cartwheel. For the rotation in the direction of travel, as the trailing wing starts going above horizontal, start adding side slide input with both hands (pull trailing and push leading) so you are in the full side slide hand position when the former trailing wing reaches horizontal position as the leading wing. Start reversing the side slide hand position as the other wing goes above horizontal and you are in full side slide position again when that wing returns to horizontal. I tried to say the above a couple of ways. Hopefully one of them makes the light bulb glow. Hope it helps rather than confuses thing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Errr, I got the last sentence understood! Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 I must be the last one to have these sorted out! Another go at them yesterday. I went about it a different way. I had better luck with the proper look when I was closer to the ground so I tried to keep all attempts in the first 10 feet. That was a challenge in itself. It was std sail/2-wraps if that at the bottom and xtra-vent at the top. I had to do more than my usual fiddling with rod combinations and brake settings to fly all of the window safely. That aside, I think I need the reference points in the background to learn with. When it was clear blue sky I had no idea what was looking right from wrong. I then decided that the maximum width of window I would use would be 30 feet directly downwind. Then the toughest one of all was to tell myself that I would not think about inputs only think, or rather acknowledge, if the kite was to tumble left or right in that 30 feet. In other words, I would need to trust my hands to sort out the rotation and the slide combo between point A and B and back to A. I'm pretty sure I've deciphered the physics of it all but running through each step fast enough just wasn't working. Poor wind at that level not-withstanding it actually worked and I was able to make repeat trips back and forth without needing to reset everything and start again. So this would be classed as the first thing I have done more on muscle memory initially than thinking it out beforehand to a great degree. It also means I still do not have a total grasp on why it worked I just know it looked decent enough that other pilots would recognize it as a cartwheel and I could repeat it. The trick now is to see if I can do it again or if I just experienced a fluke! If I can repeat it then I can work on smoothing it out and expanding the travel. I'll need to learn to live without the full understanding of it.... for me that is the toughest part! Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portlandflyer Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hey Bart: So the question is - Is it better to be able to do them, not knowing how? Or knowing how, but still not being able to do them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 A better question might be: Once you're doing them, do you care how you did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madquad Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 And the best answer: Try not to think when doing a cartwheel. Succeeding ends when the thinking starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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