iQuad Rev Clinic (UK)

[Felix]

let me get this right Felix only people you feel fit can fly in the mega team?but arn't we going for a rev fly record numbers of kites up at once,nothing fancy just lines and lines of revs in the air?

how do you know what peoples skills are? :confused!: I have 15 years experiance rev flying does this count?ok my flying is not as some will say 'normal' and I get through sal after sails on the revs but I fly for fun and put my revs through hell,but then I do have a brand new b-series and 120' lines waiting for a chance at being involved with something special......

It is not a matter of my judgement, I can assure you! It is for those potentially taking part to consider and to arrive at a consensus at a practical level. As I have said elsewhere, my interest is not on breaking records but putting together a 'demonstration of what can be done' with the collaboration of all involved.

The Portsmouth/Bristol event is intended as a celebration, not, emphatically, the component in some ongoing competition, OK?

Felix

[Jonesey]

It is not a matter of my judgement, I can assure you! It is for those potentially taking part to consider and to arrive at a consensus at a practical level. As I have said elsewhere, my interest is not on breaking records but putting together a 'demonstration of what can be done' with the collaboration of all involved.

The Portsmouth/Bristol event is intended as a celebration, not, emphatically, the component in some ongoing competition, OK?

Felix

Still it would be a shame if some provision wasn't made for the vast majority of us rev flyers who don't fly in teams and have no desire to compete against others but would still like to take part in the celebrations in some way .... perhaps that's just not practical but.... nothing personal ...I get as much pleasure from of having a go and encouraging others to try as I do watching pro's .. and that's what's really sold rev flying to me .. some great people who are welcoming to us newbies and always keen to help us improve....

[Felix]

Still it would be a shame if some provision wasn't made for the vast majority of us rev flyers who don't fly in teams and have no desire to compete against others but would still like to take part in the celebrations in some way .... perhaps that's just not practical but.... nothing personal ...I get as much pleasure from of having a go and encouraging others to try as I do watching pro's .. and that's what's really sold rev flying to me .. some great people who are welcoming to us newbies and always keen to help us improve....

I would be very much in favour of accommodating 'individual fliers' but I wonder if they really are 'the vast majority'.

I am actually perplexed as we are talking about making a 'very large team'. Exactly what place does an 'individual flier' have in that context. It actually appears that the 'individual flier' actually has to 'transform' themselves into a 'team flier' in order to take part atall.

<grins>

Felix

[KiteLife]

Hey guys (all), take heart... We're just trying to reach some great accomplishments, regardless of varying perspectives.

My soulful suggestion, from 18 years of loving kites and doing events all over the world...

Let it all play out as planned, we'll all learn quite a bit this time around.

Here's my honest opinion...

1. Many of the "newbies" (or inexperienced TEAM pilots) might not be as ready as they think they are for over 50 kites in the sky in a busy and limited amount of space with spectators all around, especially once the maneuvers start, even basic ones... It's a whole different ballgame when you have an open beach, not so at Bristol, from what I understand.

2. The veteran team fliers (love ya Felix) probably don't give the "newbies" enough credit either, but can't simply accept and decline people for an undertaking like this without having had some experience with those particular fliers before... You have to draw the line somewhere when undertaking something like this for the first time.

There's no offensive party here, both "sides" are simply interested in their respective goals, and are working with what they know, no more, no less.

iQuad has been very active in doing "open invite" mega flies and such because of the space we generally have to operate in (tons of room to clean up messes, spread out fliers, etc), but we have been known to carefully decline pilots when the situation would not be safe or ideal... Also, from the sound of it, the primary Rev goal for the two UK events is to achieve a large, organized presence with maneuvers, etc, all built in for the most part, not specifically for a record.

We're not really talking about separatist actions here, not if you keep the important stuff in mind... This is unsure ground with so many kites in a tight public space and so many pilots who haven't worked together before... 50+ Revs has never been done (anywhere) and one spiraling pilot could potentially spell certain doom for a group of that size.

Work together cooperatively, stick to the plan, and prove/learn/expand for next year... I can assure you, it'll be better every year with that kind of approach.

Besides, I'm here to tell you, we'll have SO much fun team flying at the clinic, and a lot more people will be trained up for mega flies future events... Time doesn't stop after Bristol, and this thing is only going to get bigger and bigger.

Sally Forth, and let's fly already!

[Felix]

Hey guys (all), take heart... We're just trying to reach some great accomplishments, regardless of varying perspectives.

<snip>

Sally Forth, and let's fly already!

Heh, like he said.

As a point of information, The Decs have taken on a number of newbies along the way. This means fliers who may have had two line experience but no 4 line experience atall.

I think that we know what can be done. (We do not name names)

<grins> (again)

Felix

[Jonesey]

I would be very much in favour of accommodating 'individual fliers' but I wonder if they really are 'the vast majority'.

I am actually perplexed as we are talking about making a 'very large team'. Exactly what place does an 'individual flier' have in that context. It actually appears that the 'individual flier' actually has to 'transform' themselves into a 'team flier' in order to take part atall.

<grins>

Felix

Fair do's Felix ... not trying to have a go and may have missed the point .. but guess I thought that part of the 'spectacle and celebration' would accommodate all rev flyers... but point taken....

As to the 'vast majority' question ... It would be interested to know what the mix is... wasn't it part of a survey recently?? personally I'm a relative newbie and havent yet met any other flyers who had aspirations to be team or cpmpetition flyers...

[rob]

quite agree with you felix and john ,I wouldnt have come into the mega fly even if invited as its not my thing and i will be videoing it for the kiteden footage but what I do want is to 'party' for the 20th rev anni' and all I want to do is to fly with as many rev owners at the weekend ..maybe get a record for the most revs up in the air ,no skill needed and just a bit of fun for the video,pictures.ok so it might not be in the arena but in the area somewhere and as far as i can see it would just be rev flyers flying at the same time a bit like the unorganized dunstable fly,anyone intrested just come by the skunks tent at bristrol or portmouth..

what ever happens it will be MEGA for all..

[KiteLife]

Hoo-ya, and a hearty amen.

[Felix]

Hoo-ya, and a hearty amen.

John,

I think that we should consider the possibility of 'the long arch' to include anyone who can fly up and hold position in order to be as inclusive as is possible.

I have been talking to Stephen about the parallel team elements ahead of the grid configuration. The 'graceful' move out of the grid, back to team line-up could 'fall back' to inviting individual fliers to join in. We will have to look at the physical situation at both events and obviously the actual wind conditions will be crucial!!!!

The space required for 50 fliers 'in-line' is quite considerable as you are well aware.

I look forward to the Uchinada event.

Felix

[KiteLife]

Aye, good idea Felix... We can compare thoughts when we meet in Japan, really looking forward to it!

One of the techniques we use here in the US is to place newer pilots on the outside or bottom of maneuvers, and focus on putting them in upright or sideways hovers... The arch would work well for that, especially if we layer a 2nd arch underneath the larger one, it will give a place for the less sure pilots.

Good tact, we'll discuss further, and I'm sure Portsmouth will render forther insight into handling a group of this size.

[Felix]

quite agree with you felix and john ,I wouldnt have come into the mega fly even if invited as its not my thing and i will be videoing it for the kiteden footage but what I do want is to 'party' for the 20th rev anni' and all I want to do is to fly with as many rev owners at the weekend ..maybe get a record for the most revs up in the air ,no skill needed and just a bit of fun for the video,pictures.ok so it might not be in the arena but in the area somewhere and as far as i can see it would just be rev flyers flying at the same time a bit like the unorganized dunstable fly,anyone intrested just come by the skunks tent at bristrol or portmouth..

what ever happens it will be MEGA for all..

The good news is that at both events there will be a designated arena for us to fly Revolution kites. I do not see how we can fail to take advantage of such an opportunity!

MEGA indeed.

Felix

[Baloo]

My thoughts for what they are worth.

I have been flying Revs for a couple of Years now. Not consistantly mind, only when time and wind allow. I was at the Dunstable weekend and it was GREAT to fly near other Rev fliers.

I had an invite to try the team but declined as I feel my skills are too low and wanted others who had more confidence to try.

The idea of being part of something MEGA is fascinating to me. If there is any way I can get one of my kites up in some sort of formation that would be great. However a nice place to hover would be my idea of bliss.

Hopefully we will all have a chance to fly in the designated areas. I am sure that the likes of John, Felix, Stephen and so many others would be willing to offer help and advice to budding team fliers.

I feel quite strongly that if there is any sort of mega TEAM activity it needs to be folks that have experience in team flying. The best folks to choose the tam members are experienced team fliers themselves. This is part of a kiting celebration of the 20th year of our favourite kite. Let the display be the best it can be.

Then all of those who want to join in next time practice, practice, practice. Have a MEGA MEGA team for the 25th Birthday.

[antman]

i agree with the outside method.. as a nawbie team flier john did that with me and i felt better doing the stuff he was calling ..it also made me learn the inverted hover very quickly

[sailor99]

personally I'm a relative newbie and havent yet met any other flyers who had aspirations to be team or cpmpetition flyers...

Oh I think you have

Obviously it would be great to have this humungous fly - what fun for all. However there is always the possibility that it could end up with broken and crashed kites all over the arena, people untangling a mile and a quarter of lines and utter humiliation for all involved. And if this were the way it turned out then all that we would have done is negated all the good that Felix's mega team routine would have achieved. I will leave it for Stephen and Felix to work out if it is at all practical, but IMHO if there is any significant risk of it turning out badly then on sombre consideration I would think it a bad idea to have a go. Remember we would be asking Felix to accommodate people, whose flying skills may well be excellent but who have little or no team flying experience, and find a way for them to fly safely in a very small piece of sky with kites on all sides.

And I know this slightly contradicts my previous post in this thread. What can I say? I am a man so, while it doesn't stop me opening my mouth, I need time to think and the opportunity to change my mind when I am wrong!

[Baloo]

Exactly what I was trying to say in my post Jeremy.

You said it so much better.

I would rather crash and burn in front of my peers than the whole world.

[Choccy]

Sailor> we stay *outside* the 'velvet rope' arena and we 'jam' hover sensibly at the side lines buddy

I think there is no reason why the 'pro' mega team cannot do their huge routine *first* (in the safety of their arena).

Then we get all our kites in the air at the same time *afterwards* for just 30 seconds nearby(?)

I don't know if the Pro's realise just what us non-arena Rev fliers have to go through though at festivals (?)

They always have the luxury and safety of setting up & flying in the arena.

It's dangerous outside that 'rope'!

Berck was the first festival I have ever flown at.

I have been put off before because of the public not being aware of the lines and other kiters can be equally silly once you've claimed your space - they set up right in your zone and then some *;( etc.

Maybe I'll just photograph the experience instead. (safer!).

[harrier]

I don’t think many of us are naive enough to think we can waltz into a multi team mega fly and I don’t think that is being anticipated here.

Some accommodation for a joint fly with those that feel they have the ability to sling a Rev up into the sky and hover in any orientation needed or move under control is a somewhat different venture and might be a good end of the day job, if it goes wrong then there is all night to sort the mess out and darkness for those that feel humiliated if they try something bold and it fails.

If we crash and burn so what? We tend to push our luck when flying together and inevitably end up with some knitting to attend to, it really is no big deal and we certainly do not feel humiliated when we crash, however many folk are watching, I take the attitude “if you can do better, get out here and show us”.

50 Revs, sounds interesting, 100 sounds even better, a great finish to the team flying and a Rev party spectacle to encourage any potential new flyers or anyone wanting to go on and start team flying, lets get more folk flying whatever it takes, particularly some of those fearless teenagers who push most other sports forward at a rate.

Now, if we were to bring the Terminator with us then folk might have something to really worry about.

[Felix]

<snip>

Felix's mega team routine

<snip>

Please do not misunderstand me but it is not mine!

<grins>

Felix

[Felix]

Sailor>

<snip>

I don't know if the Pro's realise just what us non-arena Rev fliers have to go through though at festivals (?)

They always have the luxury and safety of setting up & flying in the arena.

It's dangerous outside that 'rope'!

<snip>

I can assure you that I know what it is like outside the rope. Berck was reasonably OK (not too many fliers) but The Decorators have a long history of setting up in the single line arena with all the issues that this entails. Fortunately we have an 'understanding' with the likes of Peter Lynn. He will give us the opportunity to get out of the way. If we don't it is our problem, not his! <grins>

Felix

[Felix]

<snip>

50 Revs, sounds interesting, 100 sounds even better, a great finish to the team flying and a Rev party spectacle to encourage any potential new flyers or anyone wanting to go on and start team flying, lets get more folk flying whatever it takes, particularly some of those fearless teenagers who push most other sports forward at a rate.

<snip>

The practicality of putting 50 Revs in 'close formation' means that for the majority of the fliers there will be no 'easy exit'. Lines will be crossed even in simple 'figures'. Team Flying is like that!

However, I think that it is entirely plausible that there be an informal 'mass' fly so that fliers of all capabilities can take part!

Felix

[Choccy]

The Decorators have a long history of setting up in the single line arena with all the issues that this entails. Fortunately we have an 'understanding' with the likes of Peter Lynn. He will give us the opportunity to get out of the way. If we don't it is our problem, not his! <grins>

Felix

You mean like this ?

http://www.revkites.com/forum/index.php?au...=si&img=462

[Felix]

You mean like this ?

http://www.revkites.com/forum/index.php?au...=si&img=462

Yes, exactly! Good pictures, by the way!

We don't admit to practicing, by the way...

Felix

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

However there is always the possibility that it could end up with broken and crashed kites all over the arena, people untangling a mile and a quarter of lines and utter humiliation for all involved.

“a mile and a quarter” ? I hate to break it to you mate but with 50 Revs all on 120ft lines that’s, as near as makes no odds, five miles. Doesn’t bear thinking about does it.

Berck was the first festival I have ever flown at.

I have been put off before because of the public not being aware of the lines and other kiters can be equally silly once you've claimed your space - they set up right in your zone and then some *;( etc.

Well I know exactly what you’re talking about. Remember Stephen’s offer of a free master class at Portsmouth last year? Unfortunately, there weren’t many of as due to a severe lack of wind, but those of us that did attend had to give up when one family of numpties walked back under two hovering team kites with cheapo stunt kite (that probably cost them less than their Burger & Chips) and bought us down they then decided to stop, five yards in front of us, for a family chat. When it gets that bad it’s definitely time to call it a day. And the sad thing was, I think they were totally unaware of what they had done.

[KiteLife]

Instances like that Bob, all you can do is educate 'em and send the good fliers in to help passerby "find awareness" of their environment with a friendly landing, nudge on the shoulder or what have you.

Sometimes, I find running some HARD and LOUD team moves with my top fliers usually spreads the space open nicely, like flexing your team muscles. <grin>

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

@ John

Yes, normally I would agree but to be honest, it was Monday, arena ropes had been taken down and the field had been opened up but it was crowded and space was still at a premium. We were flying on 120ft lines and to be honest I seemed a bit selfish to be hogging so much space, we had had a great weekend and decided call it a day.