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keeping sand out of endcaps


ilh

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Hello, I'm just curious as to why not put the dust cover type end caps, like come on the top, for the vertical spars. Why not use these on the bottom and on the end of the leading edge ?

nick

Nick,

One factor is weight. The silicone tubing I use (4 pieces of 1/2" length) weighs 3 grams. I found when flying with light wind and not at the 1 site where the sand texture causes a problem, removing them helped me handle the lulls. If you use the covers that Rev uses, the weight might be higher and they will not be as easily removable when not needed. I only have trouble with sand getting between 2-wrap and race rods and the end caps at one beach (Belmar in New Jersey). Larger diameter rods and beaches with finer sand do not produce the problem I encountered. I used the silicone tubing the last 2 sessions at Belmar where the weight was not an issue (strong winds, vented kites).

Since I equipped my Race and 2-wrap rods with 1" pieces of heat shrink tubing, I leave them on all the time as they only add 1 gram total and help close the gap with these thinner rods. I have them extended over the end of the rod by 1/16 - 1/8" so they shrink down over the end forming a smooth end for inserting.

In general, the silicone tubing is probably a better choice for most who are concerned about this, since it is easily added or removed when needed. YMMV

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Nick,

One factor is weight. The silicone tubing I use (4 pieces of 1/2" length) weighs 3 grams. I found when flying with light wind and not at the 1 site where the sand texture causes a problem, removing them helped me handle the lulls. If you use the covers that Rev uses, the weight might be higher and they will not be as easily removable when not needed. I only have trouble with sand getting between 2-wrap and race rods and the end caps at one beach (Belmar in New Jersey). Larger diameter rods and beaches with finer sand do not produce the problem I encountered. I used the silicone tubing the last 2 sessions at Belmar where the weight was not an issue (strong winds, vented kites).

Since I equipped my Race and 2-wrap rods with 1" pieces of heat shrink tubing, I leave them on all the time as they only add 1 gram total and help close the gap with these thinner rods. I have them extended over the end of the rod by 1/16 - 1/8" so they shrink down over the end forming a smooth end for inserting.

In general, the silicone tubing is probably a better choice for most who are concerned about this, since it is easily added or removed when needed. YMMV

Hey Wayne,

I understand what you are saying. I was mainly thinking about when flying in higher wind conditions, with a vented kite, anyway, so I was thinking that maybe the extra weight wouldn't matter. I don't know how much the little weights, that come with the B-series kites weigh (2 grams, I think), but I was hoping that maybe without the weights, the dust cap end caps (like on the topside), would maybe equal out.

Anyway, let me get this straight. You are saying that using shrink tubing on a race rod and on a 2-wrap, will still go into the end caps, and basically, this fills the gap enough, that the sand can't enter ? I kind of like that, from a protection standpoint also, you know, splintering the ends or the rods etc.

But as for the silicone tubing idea, I was thinking of just using short 1/4" lengths, and simply putting them on the rod ends, that will go into an end cap, but placing them just close enough to the ends, so that when the end cap goes on, the bungee would apply just enough pressure, forcing the end cap against the piece of tubing, to seal off the opening. I don't know if that will be sufficient or not. I suppose it will depend on how tight the bungee pulls the end cap against the end of the piece of tubing. (I hope I explained that clearly)

Either way, the method described earlier, that actually covers both, part of the end cap, as well as part of the tube, would probably be the best. It just seems that it would be a real pain, when assembling and disassemblying.

I fly on the sand dunes, on the NC Outer Banks (Jockey's Ridge), and I have the sand problem, every time I fly, so I've got to try something, next time I'm out there................. thanks for your help......reef runner

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  • 6 months later...

... I even got rid of the factory dust covers, up top, and replaced them with a piece of silicone tubing, at the top of the vertical spars. ...

Look carefully under the Dacron at the top of the vertical rod (between the leading edge tube and the reinforcement piece), you'll find a small Kevlar patch that helps prevent wear-through from the vertical rods rubbing against the leading edge rods. The "dust covers" are there to provide additional cushioning at that intersection. No problem removing them, but the fabric will have a tendency to wear through faster.

While we're talking about that intersection. If you never rotate your non-ferruled rods, check the two wing rods and see if you can't notice some rubbing where the two rods cross.

Cheers,

Tom

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OK, tested and approved, with flying colors. I put the 1/4" pieces silicon tubing, on the ends of all the spars, just short, of where the end caps would go. Then when I assembled the kite, I used the end caps to force the pieces just a bit further, to the correct spot. The silicone tubing held it's position, without fail, and the bungees held the end caps, pressed tightly against the piece of tubing. I am happy to say, I did not get one grain of sand, in any joint. I flew numerous times daily, for an entire week, without any problems. On the verticals, once one end cap was removed, the other end would actually fall off - NO Sticking. Previous flights had actually required pliers to remove the end caps, as the sand is so fine, that it gets into every little gap or opening. I had wham, wham, whammed, till I was afraid that I would break the spars or end caps, and they still wouldn't budge. Now, with this very simple improvisation, I have had no problems at all (not one grain of sand). And as for the upper verticals {thanks for the reminder, Jeepster}, on second thought, probably shouldn't remove those factory dust covers, due to wear and tear that may likely occur, between the leading edge spar and sleeve, and the vertical spar end cap, itself. Just slide a piece of surgical tubing up against the factory, rubber dust cover, just as you do on the other end caps. I couldn't be more pleased with the results, as sand is my main flight deck, and I don't' have a problem, disassembling, any more....................

(I used silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut into 1/4" lengths)

(see illustration in attached file - may not be drawn to scale)

Rev End Cap Sealer 2.bmp

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Look carefully under the Dacron at the top of the vertical rod (between the leading edge tube and the reinforcement piece), you'll find a small Kevlar patch that helps prevent wear-through from the vertical rods rubbing against the leading edge rods. The "dust covers" are there to provide additional cushioning at that intersection. No problem removing them, but the fabric will have a tendency to wear through faster.

While we're talking about that intersection. If you never rotate your non-ferruled rods, check the two wing rods and see if you can't notice some rubbing where the two rods cross.

Cheers,

Tom

Absolutely, but I thought that was due to sand, inside of the leading edge tube, but it is definately noticable...........

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  • 1 month later...

I'm going to try another approach - I am going to use O rings instead of silicone tubing! They fit tightly on the rods and I will place them short of an ending position so the caps move them into a finished position! Gonna try this out the day I go to Long Beach next week, will give an update on how this works out!! :)

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Went up to Long Beach and tested out the "o" ring fix - A-OK!!! Changed frames once and disassembled kite after a long day, and not one bit of trouble!! Haven't weighed them, but 4 small rings - 2 on the LE and 2 at the bottom of the verts, can't be much!!! Got mine at an auto parts store, I'm sure any hardware store has 'em too!!!! :kid_smartass: Did just like Reef Runner too, put 'em on short of finished position and let the caps push them into place!!! :)

Edited by stroke victim
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Went up to Long Beach and tested out the "o" ring fix - A-OK!!! Changed frames once and disassembled kite after a long day, and not one bit of trouble!! Haven't weighed them, but 4 small rings - 2 on the LE and 2 at the bottom of the verts, can't be much!!! Got mine at an auto parts store, I'm sure any hardware store has 'em too!!!! kid_smartass.gif Did just like Reef Runner too, put 'em on short of finished position and let the caps push them into place!!! smile.gif

Sounds like you got it going on.......... Now wasn't that nice, not to have to deal with, welded on, end caps...................kid_devlish.gif I might just try your method some day, but right now, my surgical tubing is doing just great, and I've got a bunch of it. kid_content.gif I'll never fly on sand again, without something on the spars. I've got all of my revs outfitted, now............Glad you had success................kid_smartass.gif

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Sounds like you got it going on.......... Now wasn't that nice, not to have to deal with, welded on, end caps...................kid_devlish.gif I might just try your method some day, but right now, my surgical tubing is doing just great, and I've got a bunch of it. kid_content.gif I'll never fly on sand again, without something on the spars. I've got all of my revs outfitted, now............Glad you had success................:kid_smartass:

Thanks for keeping track!!! The nice thing is that the "o" rings are easy to move rod set to rod set!!! :kid_smartass: Only need a couple of extras in case you lose one!!!! :) Made so much difference!! Thanks for getting the old thinking cap a-working!!!! :lol:

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  • 1 month later...

Update on this!!! The "o" rings work really well, but take a 3 wrap and a race rod with you!! :blink: I've found that you will need smaller (tighter) rings on your 2 wrap and race rods!!! :) The rings that fit a 3 or 4 wrap work OK, but a tighter fit would work better on the smaller (thinner) rods!!!:) Either way, dis-assembly has become soooo much easier!!!! :kid_smartass: Plus they add almost no extra weight!!!! :kid_content:

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  • 1 month later...

That too ... I just like to keep my gear in top shape, and the grinding going on inside that endcap is definitely something I don't like. I could always get the endcap off, but sometimes it took a bit and it always took a little grinding.

KiteCowboy rekons I'm allergic to sand, I say I look after my gear - With the Dollar exchange rate I can't afford to treat my kites as consumables.

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Sounds like you guys have really got it going on, with those O-rings. I've still got several yards of silicon, or surgical tubing, and a baggie full of 1/4 inch pieces, already cut and ready for use. I also keep a spare end cap in the baggie, just to use for the installation process. All of my frames are now equipped with 1/4" pieces of the tubing, even my spare rods and extra rod sets. That stuff seems to stay put and in place, quite well. Once you take that end cap, and force the piece of tubing into it's proper place on the spar, so that you've got a nice even seal, between it and the end cap, it stays there, and doesn't move around on you. And YES, it is great to be able to take your kites apart easily, and not worry that you are going to break something, just trying to disassemble the frame.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not knocking the O-ring solution at all. Everyone has to do what they feel is best, or easiest, for their own particular situation. In my situation, I already had some silicon tubing, which got me to thinking. And being the correct size, I was able to equip all of my rods, from 4-wraps down to race rods, with the same tubing. I found out, after a few test runs, that I could leave these pieces on the rods, without fear of slippage, which surely beats trying to move them from one kite to another, and besides, I only have one size spare part, to keep up with, in my bag. I will admit, the O-ring is probably a bit easier to install, initially, but I'll just continue to take a bit more time, and use the tubing. After all, what else am I going to do with all of these little pieces, in my flight bag? My main point is, that once they are on, they are on "to stay".

I've got two brand new revs, that I equipped with the tubing, before they were ever saw the sky. Those spars look just like they did, the day they left the Rev factory. All my other, BST spars (that's Before Silicon Tubing) appear scarred and scratched on the ends (the part that goes into the end caps), and that is from nothing but SAND. At least at this point, I've got that wear and tear, halted, and it shouldn't progress, any farther. As "KWMF" stated, I likewise, can not allow my kites to become consumables. They've got to last me a while, and barring a severe crash, or some other mishap, my spars are going to last a long, long time, and remain in good condition. I just wish I could think of something to protect those inside joints, in the leading edge. Either way, I suppose that I'll stick with my old surgical tubing method, or maybe it'll be stuck on me, or my spars, anyway! cool.gif

ps............If interested, I use silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut off square, into 1/4" lengths

If you happen to be interested, take a look at the attachment below. I think I posted it somewhere in an earlier post ! If so, I apologize....

Rev End Cap Sealer 2.bmp

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...

I just wish I could think of something to protect those inside joints, in the leading edge.

...

I use silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut off square, into 1/4" lengths

...

Have you considered cutting a few 3/8 or 1/2 inch pieces and placing them on the ends of the center spar (or on the inner ends of the outer spars) so that they extend 1/8 inch beyond the end of the spar. When you assemble the LE spar, the 1/8 extension would cover the joint and keep the sand out. You should still be able to assemble and disassemble the LE spar without too much trouble. With clear tubing, you should be able to see that you had the joint tightly assembled.

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Have you considered cutting a few 3/8 or 1/2 inch pieces and placing them on the ends of the center spar (or on the inner ends of the outer spars) so that they extend 1/8 inch beyond the end of the spar. When you assemble the LE spar, the 1/8 extension would cover the joint and keep the sand out. You should still be able to assemble and disassemble the LE spar without too much trouble. With clear tubing, you should be able to see that you had the joint tightly assembled.

Hi Pete, Great suggestion, and yep, I've considered that, but there is always the problem of sliding the LE edge pieces, in and out of the LE sleeve. They always catch, where the upright spars connect to the LE.

Now as for the clear stuff, that sounds like vinyl tubing, rather than surgical (silicon) tubing. I've never seen any clear surgical tubing, and I'm sure that you are aware, there is a big difference. I had a friend that bought some of the clear vinyl tubing from Lowe's, but it doesn't have the stretch and clinging power, and basically, it's got to be the exact correct inside diameter, and then, it will still slip, pretty easily. Do you have some clear silicon, or surgical tubing ? I'm always up for an experiment !!! confused_1.gifwink.gif

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Yeah, the silicone tubing is not really transparent, but you should be able to see or at least feel, whether the rods are seated completely. (No I don't have some special silicone tubing.) There are some fairly different versions of the vinyl tubing with more or less stickiness, pliability, wall thickness. I like a thin-walled version of the tubing sold under the brand-name of Tygon. It's pretty sticky, so it will stay in place fairly well if purchased just slightly smaller than the OD of the spar. Dipping it in hot water will make it more pliable. Make sure the spar is free of any oil by wiping with alcohol or the like. McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) sells quite a variety of Tygon tubing in the US.

If it wants to catch, you might try beveling the ends of the tubing a bit. Also put the tubing on the outer spars so you can manipulate them as you go past the tight spot.

Edited by --Pete
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<snip>

If it wants to catch, you might try beveling the ends of the tubing a bit. Also put the tubing on the outer spars so you can manipulate them as you go past the tight spot.

Given the use of The Decs kites over many years in sandy conditions we have not ever had any serious problems with degradation of kit apart from the minor inconvenience of requiring good rotational grip to remove end caps or separate spars.

<grins>

Felix

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Well I have just converted a broken 4-wrap spar to a beach kite stake, so I'll get a real good feel for what the sand will do to the rods blue_cool.gif

I also got my Blasts from TK which are 4-5 years old and the ends are just white, but still feel fine to me. My guess is that it's not a problem at all, but the O-rings are a simple, easy and cheap solution to make me feel better without needing any work, modification or impairing the handling in any way.

My guess is that the collective Rev commununity would endorse any such 'mod' that makes a pilot feel better and gets them flying more wink.gif

(my theory and I'm sticking to it)

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<snip>

My guess is that the collective Rev commununity would endorse any such 'mod' that makes a pilot feel better and gets them flying more wink.gif

(my theory and I'm sticking to it)

Quite right too. The adequate 'rotational grip' is the key thing that may be missing!

Felix

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After several sessions where takedown became an issue - adding the "o" rings to help with dis assembly, worked for me!!kid_smartass.gif There were times when no amount of twisting or beating or cursing did anything!!! kid_cussing.gif Seemed like a cheap and easy fix to a frustrating problem!!! smile.gif

I'm with you Wayne. Obviously, some of our comrades in flight, just haven't hit that right combination of, "gap" between the end cap and spar, and the right size sand. The sand that I fly on, in the summer, is so fine, that nothing is sacred, and no crevice is spared. When it gets into that "gap", I have actually had to use pliers, to break them loose, and then, I was always concerned that I was going to shatter the spar, or do even more damage, with the pliers. (I did use a towel to protect the end caps and spars from the pliers) And then, when it would finally break loose, there would be this awful grinding and crunching sound, and then, sand would just pour out. I totally agree, on the very "cheap fix", to a very frustrating problem, whether it be O-rings or surgical tubing, whatever works. Since I equipped all of my rods with surgical tubing, I have had "zero" problems, and take down has been a breeze !!! wink.gif

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This fall at the Lincoln City festival, on Saturday, I was flying my older Rev1, in the rain with Ben and Scotty and some of Island Quad.:kid_smartass: When it came time to take down because the rain was unbearable, I couldn't release one cap from a vertical! :kid_cussing:I finally got it loose in my hotel room, Watty knows how much of a struggle that was, and reminded myself to put them on that kite from now on!! :censored: Talk about sand!!! :kid_cussing: Haven't had any problems since!! :) Just one of the ideas I've taken from the forum and used or adapted for my own situation!! :) Rotational grip!!! :P If it leads to more time flying and less time fussing, .......:)

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  • 8 months later...

I have only flown once on sand, full vent Phantom, and used the vinyl caps that came with the kite. Had no problem with disassembly. Howerver, the guy I flew with at Lunt Beach (Illinois, north of Chicago, Lake Michigan lakefront), had to take his home partially assembled because he didn't have any with him. It dawned on me that the most effective and lightest (six of those vinyl caps add weight to a ul) method of keeping the sand out is to wrap the junction of the plastic cap and the rod with 1-1/2 to 2 wraps of 3M blue painters' masking tape. It adds a couple minutes to the set-up time, but not one grain of sand can get in. This tape sticks very well to the spar and endcap, but not very well to itself, so its quite easy to remove.

I am a firm believer in K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid).

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