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keeping sand out of endcaps

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I'm with you Wayne. Obviously, some of our comrades in flight, just haven't hit that right combination of, "gap" between the end cap and spar, and the right size sand. The sand that I fly on, in the summer, is so fine, that nothing is sacred, and no crevice is spared. When it gets into that "gap", I have actually had to use pliers, to break them loose, and then, I was always concerned that I was going to shatter the spar, or do even more damage, with the pliers. (I did use a towel to protect the end caps and spars from the pliers) And then, when it would finally break loose, there would be this awful grinding and crunching sound, and then, sand would just pour out.

It definitely is a particle size issue. I have flown at several beaches without significant issues. Only one, Belmar, NJ, has the perfect size grains to weld 2-wrap and race rods to the end caps. Some, like Wildwood, NJ have smaller grains that usually come out easier, while others have coarser grains that don't get in the gaps. Any approach that increases the diameter of the end of the rod or reduces the end of the cap will stop the problem. I have not experienced problems with 3 or 4 wrap rods yet.

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For those who are thinking of going the "o" ring method, take both a 3 wrap and either a 2 wrap or race rod with you!! The same "o" ring will work on 3 or 4 wraps, but race and 2 wrap use another size!!wink.gifIn a pinch, the smaller "o" ring will work on the larger rods, but having both sizes is a good thing!!! smile.gif I weighed them, only a gram each, so 4 "o" rings are pretty light!! kid_devlish.gif

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@ Wayne.

I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?smile.gif

Michael

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I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?smile.gif

2 for the leading edge tips and 2 for the bottom of the verticals ... nothing needed on the top of the verticals.

I use this method on my beach revs as well, tape is bulletproof, but o-rings is just less hassle. Depending on the grain size the o-rings I have don't always keep out 100% of the finer stuff, but it keeps enough out to make dissassembly possible.

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It's been a long time since I commented on this subject, which can be found here, [ http://www.revkites.com/forum/topic/598-keeping-sand-out-of-endcaps/page__view__findpost__p__70320 ], or go back up to post #29 in this topic. Either way, after considerable flight time, since that post, I'm still sold on the surgical tubing method. Nothing wrong with the O-rings, at all, and several members seem to be having great results with them, although I have heard comments concerning the need for several different sizes, etc, as well as a minor bit if sand intrusion, still being a problem. It's just a matter of personal preference, I suppose, and what you have available.

I fly predominately on sand, and the surgical tubing has worked flawlessly, ever since I started using it. Also, I use the tubing at all six (6) junctions - both ends of the leading edge, and both the top and bottom, of both verticals. Yes, the upper verticals already have factory supplied dust covers, but fine sand can still get in, especially with 2-wraps & race rods.

Again, I've never had a grain of sand, to get into any joint, using the surgical tubing (silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut into 1/4" lengths), and now I have it on each end, of each frame section, that goes into an end-cap, and I see no reason to remove it. I leave the tubing on the spars, whether then are in the kite, or not. The tubing is cheap, and you can make up a lot of 1/4" pieces, out of a foot or so. I keep spare sections, already cut to size, along with an end-cap, in a small baggie, in my flight bag. I've never had to replace a piece yet, but I like to be prepared, just in case. Oh, and at home on the workbench, is the place to cut the sections of tubing (with a sharp razor blade), NOT in the field.

As for installation, the dry tubing can be a bit stubborn, to initially slide into the exact position, on the spar, but if you will wet the end of the spar, with a little bit of good "old fashioned spit", the tubing will slide into place easily. Use an end-cap, to push the piece of tubing, onto the spar, just barely short (1/2 mm) of the full depth, and once it dries on the spar, it's rare to have to mess with it again. From then on, when you assemble the kite, the bungees keep the end-caps pressed snuggly against the end of surgical tubing, preventing the entry of the pesky sand................just my 2 cents worth. kid_content.gif

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@ Wayne.

I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?smile.gif

Michael

Steven is correct, the factory dust covers work well enough for me!! I just use them (the "o" rings) on the bottoms of the verts and on the LE ends!! 4 total, almost no weight, much easier to take down - a simple solution to a pain in the @#@ problem!!! kid_devlish.gif Seems like those 4 points take the majority of abuse!! But the race and 2 wrap rods are a different size from the 3-4 wrap rods, I keep both sizes in my bag (along with some extras) to use whenever I'm at the beach!! It's pretty easy to see the difference in sizes, so you know which to use on what rod!!smile.gif

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Steven is correct, the factory dust covers work well enough for me!! I just use them (the "o" rings) on the bottoms of the verts and on the LE ends!! 4 total, almost no weight, much easier to take down - a simple solution to a pain in the @#@ problem!!! kid_devlish.gif Seems like those 4 points take the majority of abuse!! But the race and 2 wrap rods are a different size from the 3-4 wrap rods, I keep both sizes in my bag (along with some extras) to use whenever I'm at the beach!! It's pretty easy to see the difference in sizes, so you know which to use on what rod!!smile.gif

You guys just don't understand how fine this sand is, that I fly in. It's closer to talcum powder, than anything I know of. IF THERE IS A CRACK, IT'S GETTING IN THERE. The factory dust covers, on the top of the verticals, ARE NOT, adequate, for the sand that we experience, here on the east coast dunes, especially if you are flying 2-wrap, or race rods. You just can't believe it ! blue_confused.gif

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If it is that fine, I would get the brown, almost gummy, so-called surgical tubing and actually cover the joint between cap and spar completely. It might take a bit of time to set up, but it would keep the sand out.

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At first, that's what I thought was being talked about, but I soon understood after Nick explained himself!! I mean the "o" ring and the tubing do just about the same thing, keep the sand out of the cap - rod connection!! Completely covering that connection would be a great way to keep this problem from occurring!! It would mean removing the "sand cap" and covering that joint!! If it saves in take down time, it's worth spending the time setting up!!

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If it's fine enough to sneak past everything you throw at it, a wrap or two of tape should do the trick.

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If it's fine enough to sneak past everything you throw at it, a wrap or two of tape should do the trick.

Actually, I don't have a problem (anymore), since I began using the silicon tubing, on all six joints. I must be using that soft "gummy" stuff, that Pete referred to. Either way, it is very pliable, and it seals up the crack completely, between the end of the cap, and whatever tube I'm using. I just don't get "any" sand, in the end caps, now.

As I mentioned previously:

"I fly predominately on sand, and the surgical tubing has worked flawlessly, ever since I started using it. Also, I use the tubing at all six (6) junctions - both ends of the leading edge, and both the top and bottom, of both verticals. Yes, the upper verticals already have factory supplied dust covers, but fine sand can still get in, especially with 2-wraps & race rods. Again, I've never had a grain of sand, to get into any joint, using the surgical tubing (silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut into 1/4" lengths), and now I have it on each end, of each frame section, that goes into an end-cap, and I see no reason to remove it."

I know it's hard to believe, but you just can't imagine, how fine the sand on these dunes has become, over the years. The sand on the beaches, is generally, much coarser, and not as much of a problem, so normal precautions work fine there. blue_biggrin.gif

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Actually, I don't have a problem (anymore), since I began using the silicon tubing, on all six joints. I must be using that soft "gummy" stuff, that Pete referred to. Either way, it is very pliable, and it seals up the crack completely, between the end of the cap, and whatever tube I'm using. I just don't get "any" sand, in the end caps, now.

As I mentioned previously:

"I fly predominately on sand, and the surgical tubing has worked flawlessly, ever since I started using it. Also, I use the tubing at all six (6) junctions - both ends of the leading edge, and both the top and bottom, of both verticals. Yes, the upper verticals already have factory supplied dust covers, but fine sand can still get in, especially with 2-wraps & race rods. Again, I've never had a grain of sand, to get into any joint, using the surgical tubing (silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut into 1/4" lengths), and now I have it on each end, of each frame section, that goes into an end-cap, and I see no reason to remove it."

I know it's hard to believe, but you just can't imagine, how fine the sand on these dunes has become, over the years. The sand on the beaches, is generally, much coarser, and not as much of a problem, so normal precautions work fine there. blue_biggrin.gif

Nick,

I now understand that you are doing basically the same thing with the silicone tubing as the o-ring approach - sliding it onto the rod to act as a plug to seal the gap in the cap. I have been using 3/4 to 1/2" lengths stretched over the end of the caps while still closing on the rods. Someone on this forum made this suggestion and it has worked for me, but the rod is sometimes gripped by the sleeve and requires a slight extra effort to hold the cap while pulling out the rod. Your approach seems like it might have advantages - half the weight, option of using it on the top inner joints under the pvc sleeves if needed, and no friction to resist removing the rod. I also suspect placement would be more secure with silicone tubing than o-rings which could slide, since it is of no value if the material doesn't contact the cap to seal all around.

I will plan on trying your variation on my next beach flying trip. Thanks for the suggestion.

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I don't know if this topic has gone somewhere else but it looks as though the sand problem is still there for some.

Instead of caps, "O" rings, or tubing, why can't each end of all rods be filled with a squirt of silicon glue and solve the problem once-and-for-all.

The weight of a lump of glue inside the tube will be no more than a cap or something. Do the tubes have to be open or I missing the point.

It will keep the sand out.

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Reason - wrong problem!! Our various solutions weren't about getting sand in the ends of the rods, but between cap and rod!! The "O" rings and tubing fixes were to keep the sand from getting in the cap and making it very difficult to pull out the rod!! The fixes are different based on what kind of sand you're trying to keep out!!

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Now if only I can figure out a way to deal with the humidity + powder like sand on some of our beaches which result in the entire sail and lines being coated in a layer of the stuff ...

:(

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Sorry being a "New" guy with bright ideas,I should just find that sand and stick my head in it.

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Now if only I can figure out a way to deal with the humidity + powder like sand on some of our beaches which result in the entire sail and lines being coated in a layer of the stuff ...

sad.png

Well, you know when you get in the shower in the evening (well, maybe we shouldn't go there), but just a suggestion..........or maybe a water hose, for the Rev.

When I fly on the dunes, during the hot days of summer, many times I come in and step in the outdoor shower for a quick rinse off. Then I grab the Rev, hit it good on both sides with the water hose, and we both go up and sit on the deck, in the sun & breeze to dry off. Hey, it works for me, but probably not so good in cold weather............ani_whistling.gif

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Sorry being a "New" guy with bright ideas,I should just find that sand and stick my head in it.

Hey - no harm, no foul!! Several of us have tried many times to combat the sand issue, and these are the fixes we came up with!! Some use them, others just use force, but at least we gave it some thought and tried something!! You had an idea, no problem here!! But I'd hate to try to use that rod in the leading edge after you filled those ends with goo!

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Just a thought:

post-3789-0-80242000-1438710603_thumb.jpg

You may be able to achieve something similar by using a drill, plus it will decrease overall weight.

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Just a thought:

attachicon.gifEnd Cap.jpg

You may be able to achieve something similar by using a drill, plus it will decrease overall weight.

Just curious - what is that, and if it's an end cap, how did you get those diamond shaped holes in it ???

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Nick, that's a drawing created in a 3D program, Google Sketchup. I did not make any prototypes of that design, but did make (at my local machine shop) some prototypes of the one shown here above it. I will post some photos of the actual cap in use as soon as possible. Flew them on sand at the IKE retreat this past weekend for two days on sand. Flew another kite with standard caps as comparison. They are awesome. Not a grain anywhere.

post-3789-0-49904600-1443017370_thumb.png

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After several years now, the O" ring solution has worked well. On this sliding issue - you need to find rings that fit your rods snugly, but still overlap the cap edge too. At Home Depot, I think it was "O" ring package marked "size #278" that fit all the rods snug. Before I had gotten some at Napa, but needed 2 sizes for all my rods. One size for 2 wrap and race, 1 size for 3+4 wrap. The #278 seems to work on them all.

My observations are from the West Coast, flying at Lincoln City, Rockaway,and Seaside OR, and at Long Beach WA. The sands there seem to be kept out!

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