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Quad sticks

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I've seen a lot of discussion in other forums about quad sticks (magic stix, training wheels, etc.).

What are the current thoughts on these? Does anyone use them in competition?

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Hi, usually most of the best European pilots use the magic sticks in competition. I find that you can easily recuperate from any difficult dead position and the kite is more balanced in fly, you can more easily do tricks like axel, flic-flac, float, etc. If you add long handles and no bridle you can try to fly as Guido and Paolo. http://digilander.libero.it/StuntKite/imag...chooDIVX300.avi

http://www.micro-design.it/microaquilotti/...CeresaEC2003.rm

Ciao.

Bru.

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Indeed, magic sticks are quite popular in Europe... They'e only used by three North Americans that I know of, Lam Hoac, Alex Mason and Scott Weider.

Myself, I fly the Rev I for it's precision attributes... I've never liked the sticks for my style, due to the added inertia.

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I don't think either Lam or Alex use the magix stiks, but I sure do!  Scottie Weider does some of the slowest and flatest axels you've ever witnessed.

I find they assist with a wider wind window (no more dreaded REV-stall at the edge!), also with ground recoveries and slack line tricks.  The single greatest benefit is a to allow a lighter weight frame though, because the sticks spread the energy or stress forces over a greater area.  My two wrap frames can take 10 or 12 miles per hour without damage.

It's a personal preference to be sure, but the benefits outweight the weight increase in my humble opinion.  

Teaching is a lot easier on the kite with this addition to the frame also.

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I watched the quadline competition at NJSKC today.  Three of the five competitors used them.  Having said that, the two best flyers did not (and they were several levels of skill above the rest also).  

I have some.  Don’t use them.  Don’t like them because the Rev can be flown without them with just as much control.

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These sticks sound interesting. How much are they? Where can I get them? What do they look like?

As far as I know, no one sells them. You have to make them yourself.

If you check back through the forum, there is a link to precise description with pictures somewhere.

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if you can get the plans to make them i would like to have them ive been wanting to make a set for quite a while but cant find out how <_<

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if you can get the plans to make them i would like to have them ive been wanting to make a set for quite a while but cant find out how <_<

Look at: http://www.aeolian.co.uk/kites/features/guido-maiocchi.html

There aren't any dimensions, but I am sure you can work something out that is close enough.

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hey every body i actually made a small dvd on how to make the quad sticks for kites if u email me ill get a video out to you and it has all dimensions including diameter of sticks line lenght and all u need

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Hello everyone this is Steve's wife Sherri. The video that we made we sent to Rev for consideration by the board in offering the Quad Sticks or as I call them Sissy Sticks (cuz I'm a Girl), in a package for the beginner flyer. As a new flyer myself I find that I don't have to do the Journey of reflection (walk of shame) with my sissy sticks on my kite. I love them!!

The video is to large to email. And to long for YouTube. I will see what I can edit to make it shorter. Give me a couple of days to work on it.

Sherri

aka Mrs Kite

Sunset Flyers Kite Club

Clearwater, Florida

www.Sunsetflyers.com

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That's pretty small, by typical standards...

If you're willing, can you put it somewhere for me to download?

If so, I can add it to the Rev site, and give appropriate author credits.

Let me know what you think. ;)

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well if the video comes out or rev makes them it would be good i could use them for my messups

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That's pretty small, by typical standards...

If you're willing, can you put it somewhere for me to download?

If so, I can add it to the Rev site, and give appropriate author credits.

Let me know what you think. ;)

Barresi, Sherri,

What happen?? How do we get to see this tell all video. Even if for some reason it can't be done perhaps the critical info could be posted. Like spar type/lengths, attachment points/types. :( Good, bad or in between I would like to try it myself.

Perhaps REVflyer could tell how to make a set?

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Ive debated the quad sticks just because I dont want to put reinforcements on my sails. I understand they are a must to avoid damaging the sail with the pressure from the sticks.

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End of the day, the sticks don't do enough for me (personally) to warrant the added weight and inertia during clockwork maneuvers.

From those that use them, please list the tricks and advantages offered by using quad sticks.

There are some for sure, I just want to have them listed here for the benefit of everyone.

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Ive debated the quad sticks just because I dont want to put reinforcements on my sails. I understand they are a must to avoid damaging the sail with the pressure from the sticks.

The URL I mentioned earlier does mention some of the advantages in addition to explaining how to install them.

If you can get Guido Maiocchi to join in on this, I am sure he can tell you all the advantages and disadvantages.

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disclaimer: Magix Stiks on the back aren't going to make you a master,.... and if you're one already you may not like the difference either!

For the first seven years I laughed at folks using training wheels, then I gave 'em a fair chance and found out I liked it better with, than without. I even use then on my indoor kites now!!!! In my limited quad-line experience of about 10 hours a week since '93, here's my response to the differences question.

larger wind window (kite doesn't fall out of the sky at the edges nearly as easily)

no more bow-tie, (half the wing can't invert over upon itself when teaching lessons)

no walk of shame, (it's much more difficult to snag a flying line)

better float, (you can release the kite entirely when it's inverted and it will glide straight down unattended & slowly)

More stiffness or structure to the kite = easier to dump air and flat spin, flip inside out, 3-D movements, etc

weight increase of the training wheels is offset by the ability to use lighter weight components through-out

For outdoor kites I use point 125 carbon tubes,

long sticks would be half the length of your down tubes, short would be a 1/3.

the tubes are sold at a length of 48 inches, so perfectly cut you'd get three 16 inchers out of the original length

I force a 2MM FSD Nock endcap (not a slotted cap, but the full-hole style) onto the end,

The other end is a LONG vinyl endcap to fit a .125 stick

You need a APA standoff that fits tightly onto your down tubes

I have used hot water to soften the rubbery material, then slide it on and wait for it to cool into place.

I've used vinyl tubing to make stoppers and I've used vinyl electrical tape to hold em in position also if the fit is loose.

You will make a little tiny patch (an inch in diameter) to go underneath the standoff fitting on the back of the sail. Take a matching/or contrasting piece of fabric and coat the back with stripes of 9460 3M adhesive (double sided tape, the stuff is designed to adhere two metals together!!!)

slap it in place and leave a heavy weight on it overnight or carefully iron it using a low setting to fuse in place)

75# to 90# sprectra for the truss lines

You want 'em tight, but no so tight that it adds curvature to the frame. Carefully pass the line thru the end cap hole, insuring the magix stick is centered-vertical and tie off in two directions. You want no knots on the endcaps and no distortion of the frame members! You aren't running four lines but instead it's two, folded in half and secured at the endcap. A couple of wraps around the cap will prevent any slipage.

I position the standoff fitting about 11-1/2 to 12 inches measured down from the leading edge top.

You can go to a lighter and tapered Skyshark tube for the downspars also. I've never broken a Response 12 tube since I began using them. You can buy blemished tubes for a couple of dollars each from the distributor. I've never had one of these fail either and I've been teaching & abusing my own kites for many years.

The last benefit?

If, after a couple of weeks on trial-basis, you don't like it, they're easy to remove. Pull off the stand-off fitting & cut away the truss lines.

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I'm not debating Paul's observations here, just commenting as a "non-sticks" user.

larger wind window (kite doesn't fall out of the sky at the edges nearly as easily)

I haven't found the wind window to be any larger, although the kite might be more stable with sticks on the extreme edges... I don't know about the latter, haven't experienced it.

no more bow-tie, (half the wing can't invert over upon itself when teaching lessons)
I don't run into this when I give lessons, but I'm very particular about how my students hold their handles.
no walk of shame, (it's much more difficult to snag a flying line)

Nowadays, I rarely walk down to the kite... There are ways to spin it around, even face-down.

Example... If the kite is upright on the ground, and falls towards me face down... I'll put both handles in my left hand, reach way out with my right and take hold of the right brake line... Leaving the other three lines VERY slack (to stay under the kite as it rotates), I yank the single reverse line and my kite will come around 9 times out of 10.

It takes a little fiddling to get used to, but it's pretty reliable.

better float, (you can release the kite entirely when it's inverted and it will glide straight down unattended & slowly)
The same thing is accomplished without sticks by using heavy brakes (reverse) as it comes down.
More stiffness or structure to the kite = easier to dump air and flat spin, flip inside out, 3-D movements, etc

Aye, this is true... However, the same tricks are doable without sticks using a little more technique.

weight increase of the training wheels is offset by the ability to use lighter weight components through-out
Can you expound on this Pauly?
The last benefit?

If, after a couple of weeks on trial-basis, you don't like it, they're easy to remove. Pull off the stand-off fitting & cut away the truss lines.

Indeed... Although you'll see a little "poke and nudge" between those who use sticks and those who don't, it's ALWAYS a good idea to experiment with EVERYTHING, that's how new styles and tricks come about. ;)

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well if the video comes out or rev makes them it would be good i could use them for my messups

What cha mean mess ups, a bad day of kiting is better than a good day at work. I don't think either of us makes that walk too much, except every now and then, my rev stalls and falls. I don't know if these kite sticks would stop that.

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