Interesting discussion

[big bri]

ZERO interest in competing. Already have a trophy wife and a trophy son; there isn't any more room on my mantle.........Seriously, I like to fly my kites, not stand around and watch others fly kites. I may stop down to watch a team demo or something for a few minutes but rarely if ever will my handles be staked out if there is a breeze blowing.

For those into the whole comp thing and all that it entails, have at it! Thats just not me.

I'll be on the other field or down the beach with the group flying for fun and games, laughing our asses off at each other.

Cant stand and watch to long myself.Attention span thing ,then the wind talks to me and im off flying.Team stuff is kewl as we all know,but i still Adore flying on my own or just messing around and Hanging.

That said.I do think to progress,bring to the masses.Kiteing/rev flying does need a structured League,comps,recognised body.Just not for me i dont think.Maybe one day.

WHEN IM NOT SUCH A BAD LOOSER

Have a great weekend folks

BRIAN...

[Lauranyyfan]

LOVE IT... LOL... The masters pilots would need to swap L-R handles. <grin>

... and you'd probably still whip some ass!

They'll fly all the entries for Experienced Multiline Ballet consecutively, then move on to another category altogether when they're done, and so on... They've been ironing out their format for 20 years, it works well enough when they've got the people.

Great attitude... Competition will deliver as much enjoyment and growth as you want to take from it.

Thanks for the info, John. That certainly clarifies things!

I do agree that what you expect to get out of competition and how you pursue it will dictate how much fun you have. I plan on having a lot of fun!

[dean750]

Now this subject doesn't sound so

My first and only time competing was in dual line. I was told I should start in the Experienced class right off. Skip Novice and Intermediate. While the skill level was there, the nerves weren't after watching everyone else fly. But that was dual line a looong time ago and the other people there weren't real talkitive. Not till after my warp 9 ballet to Hootie and the Blowfish "you should have done this, adjusted that, what are you thinking flying that kite set up that way in these winds????" If they only knew what would have happened if I hadn't made those changes right before I entered the box.

Rev fliers now ah days talk, help and just do what ever it takes to have a good time together as a group. Whether it's a mega fly or just individuals out flying.

If those attributes carry over to the competitive side then the only real difference in what normally happens with a group of Rev fliers is that theres a graded test for those who chose to take it.

I don't see a need for a third class in competition for Quad Line. Not if we do it together. Get my drift?

Dean

[kitecowboy]

I love my dog, I hate dog shows. I know your dog(or kite flying ability) is better than mine but thats not why I got my dog, or my kites.

my2cents, Cowboy.

[dean750]

In my experience, limited as it is, there is a wall that I (not speaking for others) run into. Meaning that all I know is what I do. Flying with others is great. It's a new experience. But from an individual stand point I don't have resources to turn to when thinking about what to do next. Just out flying with others doesn't seem to help to the extent I'd like it too.

What I mean is that being in an enviorment where your there to put out your best for others to see is a driving force in learning. At least it is for me.

Here's a question that really sounds stupid in my own head but here it is.

Whats the difference between Experienced and Masters classes?

I guess what this all boils down to is what each of us defines compitition as. From what I've read here it reads like it's viewed as a stressful, "I'm not good enough", attitude killer.

Someone did state earlier in the thread that it is what you make of it. With the way Rev fliers are with one another I think a comp. made by Rev pilots for Rev Pilots and judged by Rev Pilots would be a great thing.

Between Clinics and Comps, we could all gang up and whoop JB..... Maybe

Dean

[monkey]

Whats the difference between Experienced and Masters classes?

I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.

Between Clinics and Comps, we could all gang up and whoop JB..... Maybe

Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS

[dean750]

I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.

Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS

Well, I did say WE Monkey. That includes you if ya want. Few more clinics is all you need

Dean

[monkey]

Well, I did say WE Monkey. That includes you if ya want. Few more clinics is all you need

Dean

I think once my new kite comes and I'm off this backtracke that John makes me fly, I'll have a MUCH better chance ;-)

[johnnmitchell]

I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.

Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS

In my prime, JB had the chance to compete against me at Guadeloupe in 1997. He choose to compete dual-line team instead. Hmm!

[KiteLife]

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home.

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.

[dean750]

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home.

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.

Is this one of those, "any excuse is better than none." kinda moments?

I know, I have an excuse for everything, so I'll just sit back, shut up and see were this goes.

Dean

[johnnmitchell]

Is this one of those, "any excuse is better than none." kinda moments?

I know, I have an excuse for everything, so I'll just sit back, shut up and see were this goes.

Dean

When you look at our skills today, it is without question JB has the advantage.

Back in 1996, I had just won back to back, seven European competitions, including the European championship.

[Simon]

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home.

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.

Ah Guadeloupe... I remember it well, First time I'd every flown full precision for Quad... I was invited to compete, I still believe to make up the numbers. I was STACK UK Head Judge at the time. When the guys from the states turned up they were very much OK let go see who will win. The Europeans said - We've ALL won, we're in Guadeloupe

Didn't like the politics in the sport at the time, for example two set of scores posted for precision ?? How does that happen??

For me and I'm sure I've said it before and I think someone mentioned Quad flyers judged by Quad flyers, this happened at Either a Euro cup or North Sea cup many years ago. Best judging panel I've run & best competiition, we spent nearly a couple of hours debreifing teh flyers after the competition explaining what the judges were looking for and why such adn scuh scored whatever points. We even got to the point were ALL competitiors and judges agreed to see ALL raw scores. Good for judges as you cant hide but risky and only suitable with such a great panel of judges (Me, TC, Jayne Capp & a guy from Holland - really sorry I cant remember his name but he flew Quads)

I believe ALL clases under master must have a de-brief so the flyers know what they did or didn't do.

Mix format takes just the 3 compulsory shapes (45% of total score) and your ballet (55%), run each skill class that way (experienced individual, then masters individual, etc)... This would in theory, cut competition time down by 40% or more, reducing the committed time for both competitors and staff.

Been shot down by the AKA sport kite committee in majority, each time it's come up.

We started this in the UK in the mid ninetites, it was an idea worked between judges, National Director and organiser to satisfy each.

3 set figures can be on a board where spectators can see them, as all the flyers fly the same the public get to be judges too. Thi sis followed by a ballet so it break up the less audience friendly part with music. And the organiser get a series of ballets. We always started early before the main crowds arrive, then the best ballets can be flown again for the crowd.

Oh and John me think one does not tell the whole truth...."Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day."

You really think that he was in shape to fly Quad as well as Team

[KiteLife]

For me and I'm sure I've said it before and I think someone mentioned Quad flyers judged by Quad flyers, this happened at Either a Euro cup or North Sea cup many years ago. Best judging panel I've run & best competiition, we spent nearly a couple of hours debreifing teh flyers after the competition explaining what the judges were looking for and why such adn scuh scored whatever points. We even got to the point were ALL competitiors and judges agreed to see ALL raw scores. Good for judges as you cant hide but risky and only suitable with such a great panel of judges (Me, TC, Jayne Capp & a guy from Holland - really sorry I cant remember his name but he flew Quads)

Superb, really superb... I love that approach, keeps both the flying and judging honest.

I believe ALL clases under master must have a de-brief so the flyers know what they did or didn't do.

Agreed!

Oh and John me think one does not tell the whole truth...."Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day."

You really think that he was in shape to fly Quad as well as Team

I think given a level of competition such as was at Guadeloupe, he could have risen to nearly anything.

One of the things I've always appreciated about him.

[Simon]

I think given a level of competition such as was at Guadeloupe, he could have risen to nearly anything.

One of the things I've always appreciated about him.

John, I love Carl as much as the next guy... But he had a broken ankle so as much as I'm sure he would have done a good job in Guadeloupe. And as unfortunate as it was I think not doing both was actually good for him. After all he got to spend more time at the pool and with his Mum.

Also if we opened it up further then James would have competed as well... aqn dwho know who else?

By the way does anyone have the scores on a web site?

[johnnmitchell]

John, I love Carl as much as the next guy... But he had a broken ankle so as much as I'm sure he would have done a good job in Guadeloupe. And as unfortunate as it was I think not doing both was actually good for him. After all he got to spend more time at the pool and with his Mum.

Also if we opened it up further then James would have competed as well... aqn dwho know who else?

By the way does anyone have the scores on a web site?

I'll search for the scores. I am sure I have them somewhere, at least the final scores and possibly the judges scores

[KiteLife]

Haven't seen the scores online anywhere, I think Kite Passion is only place I saw them published at all... Maybe AKM too.

[dean750]

So is this thread taking anyone back to the glory days?

Does it make all ya old farts wanna come out and show us how it's done??

Would it help ya all unretire if us young or newwer competitors agree to take it easy on ya???

Thats where the 3rd class would be useful. Quad line geriatric olympics???

You know I'm kidding right? Don't need to be knee capped by some old fart with a cane. Or run over with a walker.

Dean

[johnnmitchell]

Haven't seen the scores online anywhere, I think Kite Passion is only place I saw them published at all... Maybe AKM too.

I have the quad scores including judges scores, however precision is only final scores. Ballet is broken down into execution and choreography. They look a bit odd, thus I understand a tiny bit more what Simon was saying about two different scores.

Judges scores where by a number not name. So, you can only guess which judge is which. I know very well which judge gave me far below average scores in ballet.

I do not have any team scores.

[dean750]

So is this thread taking anyone back to the glory days?

Does it make all ya old farts wanna come out and show us how it's done??

Would it help ya all unretire if us young or newwer competitors agree to take it easy on ya???

Thats where the 3rd class would be useful. Quad line geriatric olympics???

You know I'm kidding right? Don't need to be knee capped by some old fart with a cane. Or run over with a walker.

Dean

No takers huh??? come on.... I learn best when having it beat into me. Except saving 5 mph. For some reason I only got like maybe 3 at the time I need 5. I'm working on it though. JB gets it if he thinks about it.

I don't have total control, I suck in light wind on SHORT lines..... recent quote, "If I let you keep it up, I won't have a kite to take home tonight." It was so hard to be serious hearing this. I've got this fire under my.... (beating around the bush) butt, that has got me flying everyday, rain, shine, snow, sleat, wind, no wind, work or not. Okay, as my family once called it obsessed. But it's good for me. Beaches are safer for my Rev's. No concrete or asphalt... for the most part... NO trees, hopefully. Think ya all would put on a great show and I'd learn something along the way. Ya all know you want to. Preasure, preasure.....

Dean

[Kite Krusader]

Hello Everyone,I just returned home from West Chester, Ohio where I was a guest of the Airwaves Kite Festival. It was a wonderful event with plenty of wind and a lot of sun for this early in the year.While I was there I had a conversation with our Midwest Sportkite Conference Commissioner, Ann Vondriska. We discussed the issue of adding a Novice catagory to Multi-Line Ballet and Precision events. We both agreed to do a trial run at my competition events in June. On June 13 and 14 at the MI Kitefest and on June 27 and 28 at Warren Dunes Kitefest we will be including the Novice Multi-Line catagory.If you or anyone you know is a novice flier and would like to try out a competition please be in attendance at one of these events. We are excited to see what happens.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.Sincerely,Dave BushAKA Region 5 Director269-357-4032

http://www.back2thewind.com/

[Simon]

Hello Everyone,I just returned home from West Chester, Ohio where I was a guest of the Airwaves Kite Festival. It was a wonderful event with plenty of wind and a lot of sun for this early in the year.While I was there I had a conversation with our Midwest Sportkite Conference Commissioner, Ann Vondriska. We discussed the issue of adding a Novice catagory to Multi-Line Ballet and Precision events. We both agreed to do a trial run at my competition events in June. On June 13 and 14 at the MI Kitefest and on June 27 and 28 at Warren Dunes Kitefest we will be including the Novice Multi-Line catagory.If you or anyone you know is a novice flier and would like to try out a competition please be in attendance at one of these events. We are excited to see what happens.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.Sincerely,Dave BushAKA Region 5 Director269-357-4032

http://www.back2thewind.com/

How are you going to run novice?

I would do 3 set figures followed by a ballet. More fun for flyers and people watching.

3 figures give you an element of precision without being boring, lets face it Novice is never that exciting.

Doing a ballet at least get the music on.

Now what figures are suitable fo Novice?

[KiteLife]

Aye, that's the MIX format approved by the IRBC... But it's been vetoed by the majority of the AKA Sport Kite Committee thus far.

While the IRBC may approve something for global use, every organization (AKA/STACK/IRBC) can make exceptions to the rules.

IRBC Rule book - http://www.worldsportkite.com/irbc.htm

AKA Appendix - http://aka.kite.org/?publications.shtml#rule_books

Personally, I'd like to see all comps go to this format, as it would save TONS of time and make things more appealing for the general public.

[Simon]

Aye, that's the MIX format approved by the IRBC... But it's been vetoed by the majority of the AKA Sport Kite Committee thus far.

While the IRBC may approve something for global use, every organization (AKA/STACK/IRBC) can make exceptions to the rules.

IRBC Rule book - http://www.worldsportkite.com/irbc.htm

AKA Appendix - http://aka.kite.org/?publications.shtml#rule_books

Personally, I'd like to see all comps go to this format, as it would save TONS of time and make things more appealing for the general public.

Agree John, this really works well and STACK UK were using this back in early 90's, to good effect to introduce new disciplines like this,(Novice Quad) so its an ideal choice.

Does the AKA have vito over all events? Or could an event run an unsanctioned event using this format to demonstrate its viability?

Also depending on the number of active competitors, could they lobby AKA. After all the flyers are the important ones not AKA(STACK, AJSKA) if we leave what do they have?

Full precision coudl still be used for "National title" events

[KiteLife]

To be an AKA-ranked event (i.e. regional/national points towards the AKA championships), I believe the AKA rules need to be used.

However, it is also possible to receive AKA-sanctioning (i.e. insurance, etc) and run a comp of your own design (such as Tricks Party), as long as it's safe and in good taste.