Maintaining inverted hover help

[adammandes]

I had gusty winds 12 to 26 yesterday. My kite of choice was a mid vent with a three wrap frame on 120 foot lines.

Flying was good, and I was able to hold an iverted hover for over 60 seconds, however it was rocky. I'm thinking the answer is more practice, and a nice clean wind.

Thoughts?

[REVflyer]

I was out also in those same conditions at the Germantown Soccerplex using the vented EYEs (about the same venting square inch area as their mid-vent model). Mine had the Rich Race frame leading edge and Zen down spars, 120s on short no snag handles. We could just as easily have used a full vent sail/race frame arrangement Adam.

The quick power of the gusts was challenging, occasionally twitchy too, . . . to smooth all that out you'd go to more venting. In the lighter blowing conditions though, you'd wish back for the mid-vent as it has more snappy command executions.

It was so much easier when everybody flew a full sail ~ regardless of the conditions!

[bartman]

Yes, more practice!

My inverted hovers started exactly as yours did. The wobble factor has been reduced to almost zero over the last two years and the only explaination is continual practice over that time.

I have found for low level hovers it helps to turn the handles more horizontal and put them wider apart.

I also have found that if the wobble starts it is best to resist the temptation to start making a lot of adjustments, but to exhale, relax my arms and hands and let the kite settle. It sounds wonky, but really it works.

Bart

I had gusty winds 12 to 26 yesterday. My kite of choice was a mid vent with a three wrap frame on 120 foot lines.

Flying was good, and I was able to hold an iverted hover for over 60 seconds, however it was rocky. I'm thinking the answer is more practice, and a nice clean wind.

Thoughts?

[Felix]

<snip>

I also have found that if the wobble starts it is best to resist the temptation to start making a lot of adjustments, but to exhale, relax my arms and hands and let the kite settle. It sounds wonky, but really it works.

Bart

That's the way to go! Way cool Bart...

Felix

[adammandes]

I was out again today for three hours, and using a non vented sail with race rods. The kite had a great feel, and I worked on skills as well as just having a good time flying the kite.

I am finding the inverted hover is getting easier to hold the more I practice, today I counted two minutes. I am still all over the place right an left, and still rocking from side to side, but am getting much more comfortable being inverted.

Sustained winds would make this much easier, I believe, and gusty cons=ditions seem to be the norm around here.

I also snapped a veritical spar today when a gust got ahold of the kite. Very spectacular, the rod broke in two and flew 50 feet. I switced over to a three wrap spar, and all was good.

Practice, practice, practice.

Bart, you have some great kite photos. Looks like your ready to fly in groups.

Adam

[bartman]

You are right on the money for that learning curve!

Thanks for the photo props.

I can tell you that flying in a group is about 64 times better than solo flying. That was the last big group I was in....

Bart

[Captainbob]

One common thread to all this: everyone seems to describe moving handles in order to make the right wing go up or the left wing go up (or down in either case).

Try this instead: think of opposite/differential motions of the handles (left brake out - right brake in) as causing rotation. Clockwise is clockwise whether inverted or not. The kite is not turning right or left, but clockwise or counterclockwise.

Once you get the idea that the in-out tilt (differential; in relation to each other) of the handles controls rotation; and the in-out tilt (common; together) controls motion towards and away from the leading edge, it becomes much more easy to overlay different amounts of differential and common tilt to control the kite. I would practice hovering in all positions before doing ANY forward flying, much less backward flying.

Once you have practiced that, straight down wind, until it becomes automatic, then begin moving your hands forward and back in relation to each other to make the kite slide sideways (or maintain height when on end).

(Different control motions, but this view -- CW/CCW -- of kite motion can help on dual line kits as well. How many times have you seen a novice 2-liner dive a kite into the ground instead of pulling back into the sky and then hear, "Well, I tried to turn it to my right." When teaching beginners I try to never say the words left or right. When talking about the kite I use CW and CCW; when referring to the hands I point to or tap the appropriate hand or shoulder.)

As a creed to believe in, I say, "Right and left are the mortal enemies of sport kite flyers!"

Fantastic Explanation, regarding thinking of the rotation of the kite rather than which handle controls which side of the kite. Makes sense, and is very easy to remember.

[Captainbob]

Spent about 4 hours today flying my Rev B m/v in some good winds , for a change. I am focusing on one thing at a time, in learning how to fly the Rev properly, and right now it is the inverted hover. I started by going to to the top of the window, inverting, and slowly descending to the ground. Problems I ran into:

1. Decent too fast ( solution, more brake as soon as inverted)

2. Sliding to one side ( correcting the inadvertent slide by keeping hands together)

In working at this , I came to a couple of conclusions that I think are important. The first was, keeping the kite level LE down ( I shall say wings level from my piloting background) , utilizes the exact same control inputs, as when the LE edge is up. I realized this almost immediately. Left side of the kite goes down when inverted, right thumb forward on the right handle. which is the exact same input if the kite is LE up, and the left side goes lower than the right. So looking at the kite, forget for a moment, LE up or LE down, the control inputs to bring the low side level with the right are the same whether you are LE up or LE down. Hey, this makes it really easy, since this is the correction that you have to immediately make when you go off wings level, or whatever left right attitude you are trying to maintain.

The second conclusion, which is much more obvious, is for forward-reverse, or slide left and right, control inputs there are reversed or opposite LE up, when LE is past level and pointed down. This makes in really simple in my opinion. Within about 30 minutes, I was able to go to the top of the window, descend at a slow rate controlled rate , LE level while descending, not sliding either left or right, and land softly, flat, on the leading edge.

Now I have to work on maintaining a level inverted hover for long periods. The wind was very gusty today, averaging around 14 mph gusting to over 20, so I will wait for a more consistent wind speed to work on a solid inverted hover.

I really think much of flying the REV is thinking about what you are doing as you fly it, figuring out what you are doing wrong, and correcting it, and trying again. It's a fun learning experience. I do much talking to myself while learning the Rev, but hey, I can remember doing the same thing when I was practicing for my Pilots License.

[REVflyer]

A quad doesn't go left or right, i spins on it's center (clockwise or anti-CW).

The correct practice session right now for you is the leading resting on the ground and you back it up. With enough hours you can do this to the top of the wind window, like it was riding on railroad tracks. This will take many hundreds or thousands of hours to perfect. Every kite can go slow downwind to crash (or land softly, it's still just going forward though isn't it?)

Please ignore forward drive entirely, work on reverse flight instead, otherwise you are not using the kite to it's full potential. It is easier to control & predict plus more stable in fight INVERTED. You don't chase children in a stroller or land on someone's head with the leading edge facing anyway but down!

I want to see slow descending control (and then rising it back up again) at the same speed and kite orientation.

With reverse control you can fly in any direction, hovering is just your neutral (your naturally resting position), the handles can be balanced on one finger in each hand and the kite is completely rock-solid stationary. (the location of this balance point is why leaders are used on the flying line-handle point connection)

[Captainbob]

A quad doesn't go left or right, i spins on it's center (clockwise or anti-CW).

The correct practice session right now for you is the leading resting on the ground and you back it up. With enough hours you can do this to the top of the wind window, like it was riding on railroad tracks. This will take many hundreds or thousands of hours to perfect. Every kite can go slow downwind to crash (or land softly, it's still just going forward though isn't it?)

Please ignore forward drive entirely, work on reverse flight instead, otherwise you are not using the kite to it's full potential. It is easier to control & predict plus more stable in fight INVERTED. You don't chase children in a stroller or land on someone's head with the leading edge facing anyway but down!

I want to see slow descending control (and then rising it back up again) at the same speed and kite orientation.

With reverse control you can fly in any direction, hovering is just your neutral (your naturally resting position), the handles can be balanced on one finger in each hand and the kite is completely rock-solid stationary. (the location of this balance point is why leaders are used on the flying line-handle point connection)

Had some good steady wind today, for a change Eventually,made about 10 climbs to the top of the window, inverted. Started out climbing to about 10 feet, and then gradually increased it. Prior to doing this I adjusted the trim on my Rev B, with alot more down, top leaders all the way out on the last knot.

[REVflyer]

Excellent progress Bob, keep it up!