Super Sixteen

[pwmeek]

I like the idea of calling routines like a square dance. Figures have standardized names and are concatenated into extended routines. Dope sheets are available at events to explain rare or new figures. Each person/position knows or can learn what is expected after hearing the name of the figure, and does it on the "Go".

[johnnmitchell]

I like the idea of calling routines like a square dance. Figures have standardized names and are concatenated into extended routines. Dope sheets are available at events to explain rare or new figures. Each person/position knows or can learn what is expected after hearing the name of the figure, and does it on the "Go".

Have you ever had a look at the Revolution team figures manual!

It is available on this forum.

[Baloo]

Wow, Cross Thread looks scary, and I am not even a team flyer.

As for the different kite turns for the Diamonds, once a flyer has practiced the 2 basic positions, so that his kite is flying the 2 positions / directions in the grid that call for the opposite movements will this not enable them to fly at any point in the grid.

Or is it more complicated than that.

Once again, please excuse me if I am over simplifying the problem. As I said I dont fly team so may not understand the complexity.

[Felix]

Wow, Cross Thread looks scary, and I am not even a team flyer.

As for the different kite turns for the Diamonds, once a flyer has practiced the 2 basic positions, so that his kite is flying the 2 positions / directions in the grid that call for the opposite movements will this not enable them to fly at any point in the grid.

Or is it more complicated than that.

Once again, please excuse me if I am over simplifying the problem. As I said I dont fly team so may not understand the complexity.

Cross Thread is scary and certainly a notch up from the Sprocket. Great concept though. Thanks John!

I do not think that there is any great complexity in the Diamonds, just a shift in emphasis.

Felix

[pwmeek]

Have you ever had a look at the Revolution team figures manual!

It is available on this forum.

Yep; that is what suggested the idea of extending the system to grid flying. There are a LOT of showy evolutions or figures peculiar to grid flying that could be standardized, named, and be available as elements to be combined in extended routines made up on the spot by an experienced "Caller". I have seen good square dance callers who could extemporize and still end up with everyone back with their original partners, and in their original positions, at the end of the dance. (This would be similar to ending up with all wraps removed at the end of a grid routine.)

[Felix]

Yep; that is what suggested the idea of extending the system to grid flying. There are a LOT of showy evolutions or figures peculiar to grid flying that could be standardized, named, and be available as elements to be combined in extended routines made up on the spot by an experienced "Caller". I have seen good square dance callers who could extemporize and still end up with everyone back with their original partners, and in their original positions, at the end of the dance. (This would be similar to ending up with all wraps removed at the end of a grid routine.)

That pretty much sums up the objective of this thread. We are 'just' looking for the components, participants and leaders. It is early days yet but some of the elements are coming together. <grins>

Felix

[Simon]

Cross Thread is scary and certainly a notch up from the Sprocket. Great concept though. Thanks John!

I do not think that there is any great complexity in the Diamonds, just a shift in emphasis.

Felix

Disclaimer !

I agree Felix, I think with the excellent work John is doing on the flash side, if those who coem to fly have seen the flash, will at least understand teh concept of where they or the figure is and where its going.

As these are 16's they can be broken down in to 2x8 or 4x4, both of these can be done pretty well just by The Decs & TFS.  (even if we use Super Sub - Stone in Shoe, plus the likes of Keith - good at position 1 in a line & Gee.  that gives us ? at Dunstable on any given Sunday, Then Decs have their "London" group so if we get organised we could do a 16 at almost any time.

Hey Felix, if you build it they will come    PS not last week of November as there's a Pirate on board 

[johnnmitchell]

Another concept maneuver is now available at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16

Again, will it work in real life? If it does then this one might be a better one to train on first, before trying the Cross Thread.

Sorry, this one is not completed at this time for the return to the original position. I will do it at a later date if it proves feasible.

[play365]

In either of the diamond shapes why not dosy do also

[david ellison]

Another concept maneuver is now available at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16

Again, will it work in real life? If it does then this one might be a better one to train on first, before trying the Cross Thread.

Sorry, this one is not completed at this time for the return to the original position. I will do it at a later date if it proves feasible.

John - not sure about the practicality/feasibility of either of these moves unfortunately.

The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.

This new one would also need a huge vertical window to pull it off - in excess of the 10 kite ceiling.

[Felix]

John - not sure about the practicality/feasibility of either of these moves unfortunately.

The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.

This new one would also need a huge vertical window to pull it off - in excess of the 10 kite ceiling.

I think that David is probably right but I wonder if a little lateral thinking may be in order here. I was wondering how to 'set up' an attempt on the move as demonstrated by John, as in the two eights. It then occurred to me that 'the thread' may be more viable 'on the diagonal'. 'Windscreen Wipers' are not so far away in my view.

It may be best to leave the more 'adventurous' moves for the time being and focus on the ones that we know are flyable. <grins>

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

I think that David is probably right but I wonder if a little lateral thinking may be in order here. I was wondering how to 'set up' an attempt on the move as demonstrated by John, as in the two eights. It then occurred to me that 'the thread' may be more viable 'on the diagonal'. 'Windscreen Wipers' are not so far away in my view.

It may be best to leave the more 'adventurous' moves for the time being and focus on the ones that we know are flyable. <grins>

Felix

This is precisely why I have chosen to call them concepts. The diagonal version is what I first thought of, however I found it a bit more difficult to animate. I think I will place these two concepts on ice for a while and let us all just think about, maybe try simplified variations or what ever.

Now I will get myself back onto the diamonds and do some variations that have been mentioned here. Let's see, Gary mentioned something yesterday, I think Felix had mentioned some variation.

I'll just have to go back and review this thread quickly and see what was there. If you all have more ideas on Diamond variations, please say it or repeat it again.

Thank you all so much for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated and inspiring.

[Felix]

This is precisely why I have chosen to call them concepts.

<snip>

John,

The process of animating the moves potentially offers insight which would not be available to fliers.

If we go back to the 'Radar' which was a rotation around the lower (or upper) kites could you attempt to draw a thread where the left two columns set off on the diagonal just slightly ahead of the right two columns? There may be a case for making a 'stop point' where the kites are threading. It may be a square. The 'Radars' may need to be vertical!

A slight 'shuffle' into line may be required at the outset for the columns either side.

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

John,

The process of animating the moves potentially offers insight which would not be available to fliers.

If we go back to the 'Radar' which was a rotation around the lower (or upper) kites could you attempt to draw a thread where the left two columns set off on the diagonal just slightly ahead of the right two columns? There may be a case for making a 'stop point' where the kites are threading. It may be a square. The 'Radars' may need to be vertical!

A slight 'shuffle' into line may be required at the outset for the columns either side.

Felix

Do you mean a 180 radar where half the kites start from the left and the other half start from the right threading between each other at zero.

Then maybe continuing down the opposite sides, 90 on each side followed by a return back to their start point.

Or maybe at zero doing steps 3 and 6 of the Dosey-Do and return to their start point.

[Felix]

Do you mean a 180 radar where half the kites start from the left and the other half start from the right threading between each other at zero.

Then maybe continuing down the opposite sides, 90 on each side followed by a return back to their start point.

Or maybe at zero doing steps 3 and 6 of the Dosey-Do and return to their start point.

John,

How about this attached by way of an answer?

Felix

[Felix]

John,

How about this attached by way of an answer?

Felix

Followed by...

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

Followed by...

Felix

Do you mean they slide horizontally, in a threading fashion, together to form the parallel zig-zags?

[Felix]

Do you mean they slide horizontally, in a threading fashion, together to form the parallel zig-zags?

Flying forwards...

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

Flying forwards...

Felix

Sorry, I must have fried my brain yesterday flying in the sun all day.

I'll have at it and we will see what comes out. It might be what you were thinking or even something else that you might like.

[Felix]

Sorry, I must have fried my brain yesterday flying in the sun all day.

I'll have at it and we will see what comes out. It might be what you were thinking or even something else that you might like.

I'll add my sorry as I had then pictured the right columns being the ones starting ahead in the move contrary to how I had described it initially.

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

I'll add my sorry as I had then pictured the right columns being the ones starting ahead in the move contrary to how I had described it initially.

Felix

I think I will have a slight variation in the timing in that the right columns moves at a slightly different speed as the left columns.

Should I try starting this from the ground with the outer kites moving at varying speeds faster then the inner kites?

Or, should I start it from columns already in the air?

[Felix]

I think I will have a slight variation in the timing in that the right columns moves at a slightly different speed as the left columns.

Should I try starting this from the ground with the outer kites moving at varying speeds faster then the inner kites?

Or, should I start it from columns already in the air?

I anticipated a different start time but i think that the flying speed should be the same for the best effect.

Edit. A small shift in the vertical position should be enough.

Felix

Edited November 14, 2010 by Felix Mottram

[johnnmitchell]

I anticipated a different start time but i think that the flying speed should be the same for the best effect.

Edit. A small shift in the vertical position should be enough.

Felix

Fine, I will create a vertical shift with all starting at the same time moving exactly the same distance.

This is considering that I am of course starting from the vertical columns and not from the ground.

Do you have a name for this maneuver yet? If not, how about zig-zag?

I am already visualizing this moving on into a diamond, maybe as the base figure.

[Felix]

Fine, I will create a vertical shift with all starting at the same time moving exactly the same distance.

This is considering that I am of course starting from the vertical columns and not from the ground.

Do you have a name for this maneuver yet? If not, how about zig-zag?

I am already visualizing this moving on into a diamond, maybe as the base figure.

Zig Zag would do fine. I think that holding the Zig Zag at the crossover would be good..

I would consider this to be a 'Diamond' based move.

Felix

[johnnmitchell]

Zig Zag would do fine. I think that holding the Zig Zag at the crossover would be good..

I would consider this to be a 'Diamond' based move.

Felix

OK, I am working on it now. I doubt I will have it done before you bed down for the night. Hopefully I will have the basis when you look here in your morning.