painting my own kite

[cordover]

I just ordered a new Zen and wondered if I might put a small bit of my own calligraphy on it. Is it heresy to mark Bazzer's kites, works of art in their own right? What kind of ink or paint or dye would stick to this kind of fabric? Would that small change in weight threaten the balance of something this light? Weaken the fabric? It turns out that I am a Zen Buddhist and there is a tradition in Zen of ironic humor. In my case, the question about who is flying whom warrants at least a few bits of kanji (formal calligraphy). Anyway, I don't want to be disrespectful and I don't even know if it's possible. What do you think?

Really looking forward to flying it either way.

Mitch

[big bri]

I would certainly ask Bazzer whats the best stuff to use if your set on doing anything with the sale.Steve D is also the man with a Can[spray can]i beleive.

Solvents and stuff in any paint may do damage that will be a disaster.

Dont dive,before you know how deep it is...

Good topic btw,intresting to see what folk come up with.Personally,i would practice on some old material anyways.Very similar material to the kites.See what you like and dont like.What works and what doesnt.

BRIAN...

[cordover]

I would certainly ask Bazzer whats the best stuff to use if your set on doing anything with the sale.Steve D is also the man with a Can[spray can]i beleive.

Solvents and stuff in any paint may do damage that will be a disaster.

Dont dive,before you know how deep it is...

Good topic btw,intresting to see what folk come up with.Personally,i would practice on some old material anyways.Very similar material to the kites.See what you like and dont like.What works and what doesnt.

BRIAN...

[cordover]

Thanks. He'd be the one to ask, alright. Do I e-mail him? or wait for somebody to point this topic out to him? Got contact info?

Mitch

[big bri]

Im sure Bazzer will be glad to help and advice.Thers other kite builders and designers on here also.Im sure they will be along.

Hes got a God type status and magical hands,but hes still a Pork Pie eating Englishman and a proper fella.

PM him,i would[if my e mail wasnt down atm]

BRIAN...

[REVflyer]

Ripstop polyester (Icarex 31 polycarbonate) fabric is coated with some super slippery stuff!

It needs acid-etch dyes and pressure cooker (2 atmospheres + 240 degrees) to leach the color thru the fabric, as opposed to merely resting on it's surface. This path is a royal pain but extremely durable,... I've flown single skinned no-sew construction kites decorated this way for literally thousands of hours. The fabric also looks good when back-lit.

Nylon can be airbrushed/painted with Designmaster spray cans (kitestudio.com) quite successfully.

Create the illustration/graphics first on your fabric, then turn it into a kite. I practice on some scrap fabric before abusing or ruining my new kite though!

if you're painting a simple graphic like calligraphy, it might look best if done on both the front and back of the sail (in register though!) using Black ink/toner/dyes on a white fabric substrate.

The weight of the art is not going to impact a kite as large as the Zen,... heck you could suspend a 9 volt battery off of one wing and it would still fly fine.

Most illustrated kites are not made out of polyester!

paul

[kitefantex]

Check to make sue it does not bleed. If you are just ordering the Zen maybe you can have the writing put on during the manufacture of the kite. It may cost a little more. I have tried with other kites and the color traveled out a way from the line I wanted.

[BillLamm]

I don't know what fabric the Zen is made out of but I found an article (can't find it on line again) that pointed me to this stuff....

I would ask if you can get some scrap fabric sent out with your Zen... then you can experiment .... I have had limited success with Sharpie marker on Hobby Lobby RSN but that is NOT the same as usual kite making RSN or polys... I am interested to find out what works for you...

[johnnmitchell]

To my understanding the material used for Zen is only Icarex Polyester.

Before you think about doing any painting on your brand new expensive Zen, I would suggest you acquire a piece of the "exact same material" and experiment with it until you find what you want. Then you can think about doing something on your brand new Zen.

[chewbaka]

maybe you want to ask "kisa". she does a lot of painting on kites.

kisa´s page

she uses an ink called "skytex".

next: there are some spanish guys, who even print on icarex:

printed revs

i saw a lot of revs and other kites with paintings.

most of them were beautiful, depending on the skill of the artist.

you should start to paint on white icarex, because it is difficult to "guess" the final color, if you add your painting on

a colored fabric. get some pieces of icarex to test first.

even with "permanent markers" you can draw very nice things on a sail.

in germany we can buy "refill-bottles" for permanent markers.

you can applicate this with a brush or whatever you want.

should be available in the US, too.

and, maybe best for calligraphics.

have look at shops, that offer paint for airbrushing.

they have paint, speciallized for fabrics.

it is really not a problem! just give it a try!

[cordover]

I guess I'm getting 2 messages, here. On one hand, it takes 2 atm pressure and super high temps to get the color to stay in the icarex, but there are clearly people doing all kinds of wonderful graphics (The Gonzales brothers are working with the same fabric). I've had permanent-maker ink spread into a wide fuzzy blob on some fabric and at 440 bucks a pop I'd be disappointed to have that happen (I don't think the first word out of my mouth would be "disappointed"). I wonder if there is some secret trick like applying an iron or soaking my little area in some fixative solution. I'll try to hit up some of the leads you have given me to see if they'll share the secret of what dye they use. Nice sites. Thanks. Meanwhile, how do I contact Bazzer? Don't want to take too much of his time lest I distract him from sewing my kite. (No one can really make my Zen...very small joke).

Mitch

[johnnmitchell]

I guess I'm getting 2 messages, here. On one hand, it takes 2 atm pressure and super high temps to get the color to stay in the icarex, but there are clearly people doing all kinds of wonderful graphics (The Gonzales brothers are working with the same fabric). I've had permanent-maker ink spread into a wide fuzzy blob on some fabric and at 440 bucks a pop I'd be disappointed to have that happen (I don't think the first word out of my mouth would be "disappointed"). I wonder if there is some secret trick like applying an iron or soaking my little area in some fixative solution. I'll try to hit up some of the leads you have given me to see if they'll share the secret of what dye they use. Nice sites. Thanks. Meanwhile, how do I contact Bazzer? Don't want to take too much of his time lest I distract him from sewing my kite. (No one can really make my Zen...very small joke).

Mitch

The Gonzales Brother use a special CMYK printer that cost them a bit over $100,000.00 not including the ink.

You could try contacting them at www.esste.com

As for Bazzer, he is on this forum

[BillLamm]

I will re-emphasize what I said before... I would ask for some scraps of the same material your sail is made of to test on... my testing so far is on clearance Hobby Lobby Rip Stop Nylon... not the kind used most often for kites..

I tried Crayola Brand fabric crayons and markers yesterday... they worked pretty good but would be a LOT of coloring for a full Quad kite sail... worked better just drawing on the fabric, then setting with the iron...

I think the setacolor paints are still my best bet. Just need to save up my milk money for a few weeks and then get some real kite fabric and paints... there is an article in Spring 07 Kiting about Jacques Letourneau who paints kite sails with Pebeo's transparent setecolor.

[Scott_of_melnsct]

Meanwhile, how do I contact Bazzer? Don't want to take too much of his time lest I distract him from sewing my kite. (No one can really make my Zen...very small joke).

Mitch

Mitch,

click the "members" link near the top of the page. Go to "B", scroll down to Bazzer. click on Bazzer to go to his profile. From there click on the link along the left side to send him a message.

Keep us all posted about ways to decorate icarex. You're not the only one who wants to know.

[cordover]

I sent Bazzer an e-mail at the Glued to the Blue address and asked him to respond within this string so we could all get it. Now we wait.

[Bazzer]

I sent Bazzer an e-mail at the Glued to the Blue address and asked him to respond within this string so we could all get it. Now we wait.

Hi guys and gals .

Had my nose to the grindstone recently.

For me its no secret. I have been using Design Master spray paint for many years now.

Check out the Glued To the Blue site.

I was taught by the master. Scott Hampton.

So learn some basics of spraying paint. Make use of stencils, card plastics even latex rubber glue.

There are lots of pit falls and techniques to learn but in the end you can come up with many amazing effects.

That's about all the info I'm willing to give as quite frankly its my job to know what I know and it has taken a long time to perfect it.

But that info should set you in the right direction.

It's unhealthy, messy and gives you a bad headache.

But the results can be astounding.

Bazzer

[jburka]

Had my nose to the grindstone recently.

Gee, I wonder with what?

For me its no secret. I have been using Design Master spray paint for many years now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Baz, but all of your sprayed sails (dragons, sizzle, eyes, rev logos, etc.) are all done on nylon. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Bazzer-painted sail on pc icky.

As John M. pointed out, the Gonzales Brothers are using a rather expensive printer for their work. It's a dye sublimation machine which uses heat and pressure for its transfer process -- lining up neatly with what Paul said about printing on polyester.

Depending on what you're trying to do, and how big a graphic you're trying to add to your Zen, you might also experiment (ON SCRAP!!) with sharpies or other permanent markers.

[syntaks]

Just from having colored on several other kites, predominately 1.5's, heres what I've run into:

Mylar will take a hint of color and rub off in the snow.

Permanent markers/sharpies are very easy to see the marker lines if you're doing a large area. Also depending on the brand/lot, they can fade to different colors, especially noticeable with hues of black.

Fabric paint covers more evenly, but does wear off after a time [months to years]. Seems to survive on the back of the sail better.

Painting with the same color can make for some subtle designs that flicker in the sun.

I've seen metallic fabric paint on a dual line kite [nylon], but not sure how the fabric compares.

Hope that helps with things not to try on a zen ;P

[cordover]

Special thanks ton you, Baz, for sharing a glimpse of your trade secrets. I can imagine how busy you are, just looking at the workmanship in my new toy. I'll give the Design Master paints a try on some of my nylon kites. Following from what Syntaks, do you know if a marker will stick to the material the Zen is made of. There is a kind of marker with a soft brush-like tip that would be perfect for the small and simple calligraphy I had in mind for the Zen. Now that we've talked about it, though, I'm getting some ambitions about bigger decorations on other kites. Amazing how deep each aspect of this kite business is.

[syntaks]

Other half here:

I have painted/colored almost all my kites to varying degrees. (I last did my B-Pro Race Hot... I added blue and green on the two white panels.) I fly a lot at night, (in Alaska here that's about 60% of the time) so I didn't like the rainbow B-pro because all the dark colors are on one side and lighter colors on the other side so it's hard to see the other side of the kite in darker times.

I use a fabric paint that comes in marker style brushes that we got at Michael's. It works well, doesn't hinder flight at all, and we don't get the "marker lines" like you would with sharpies, which is what I started with.

I have had really good luck with this type of paint and they have various tips for different effects. The only issue there is is that, when you have painted them, you no longer get the nice flashing effect in the sunlight, which is why I only painted the white panels on the sides..I really like that flashing light.

My B-Pro white panels came pre-stained, so I decided to use the paint to cover that up. I will post some photos of how mine have come out tomorrow.

Edited January 20, 2010 by SynTaks

[syntaks]

Following from what Syntaks, do you know if a marker will stick to the material the Zen is made of. There is a kind of marker with a soft brush-like tip that would be perfect for the small and simple calligraphy I had in mind for the Zen. Now that we've talked about it, though, I'm getting some ambitions about bigger decorations on other kites. Amazing how deep each aspect of this kite business is.

I can't afford a zen or there would be one in my bag, so I don't know if the material is any different than the B-Pro. If not, the fabric paint pens we have works great, though I would suggest doing what I did and practicing on cheaper kites. ;P

[jburka]

I can't afford a zen or there would be one in my bag, so I don't know if the material is any different than the B-Pro.

The B-Pro and the Zen are both made from the same material, Icarex.

[cordover]

Great tip! I have a Michaels near-by. Did you have to do something special to set the paint? Iron it or anything? or is as easy as that? Thanks! I feel like a bit of a woos, if you all are flying at night in Anchorage. I blew off great winds today because it was raining and 45! Thanks. I'd love to see your pics.

[BillLamm]

Great tip! I have a Michaels near-by. Did you have to do something special to set the paint? Iron it or anything? or is as easy as that? Thanks! I feel like a bit of a woos, if you all are flying at night in Anchorage. I blew off great winds today because it was raining and 45! Thanks. I'd love to see your pics.

I don't think you have to do anything to set the Design Master paint?? the fabric paints, markers and crayons all have specific instructions... I believe the kite fabric needs all the help it can get (from heat) in bonding to the paints...

as soon as I have more play $$ I am going to get some white fabric samples (probably from kitebuilder.com) so I can experiment...

(Question to the 'powers that be' at Revolution) What are the chances of getting some scraps of the white fabric used for rev kites... I am truly interested in painting images on kites... bringing the art out of the galleries and into the sky... I would rather paint on more skillfully built sails than build and paint on mine (especially in the Quad Kite realm)

[Aerial Art]

Greetings Mitch,

Here's a link on my painting techniques http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7638&highlight=painting

Also see my Picasa Design Master album at http://picasaweb.google.com/mshampton2

Using Design Master correctly does have a learning curve so practice, practice, practice and wear appropriate respirator.

Scott

[BillLamm]

Greetings Mitch,

Here's a link on my painting techniques http://www.kitebuild...hlight=painting

Also see my Picasa Design Master album at http://picasaweb.google.com/mshampton2

Using Design Master correctly does have a learning curve so practice, practice, practice and wear appropriate respirator.

Scott

Thank you for the links... that about wraps up the Design Master questions for me... I am still curious about Setacolor paints... I am more painterly but the Design Master sparks some great ideas in my head