Jump to content

Kitelife Rev Tutorials


KiteLife
 Share

Recommended Posts

I didn't forget anything, I listed the languages for which I've received translation volunteers.

If either of you can encourage someone with the necessary language skills, I'd welcome *any* language, as I've said elsewhere. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

What lines are being used in the low wind video?

After 2 days of being sick, a day of rain and zero wind today (all on a 4 day long weekend) I got the censored.gif and hooked up my SLE (with 1/4" frame) to the 20' lines I made to try do some more low/no wind / street flying practice .... no way I wasn't going to fly on a 4 day weekend.

I can launch and double tap to the top of the window and I can do rough to okay 360's in both directions as well as okay catch and throws ... but my brain is not processing turning over at the top and regaining ground. I even tried to 'cheat' and do it from an up and over, but the same thing goes. I either don't apply brakes and power into the ground (soft grass) or I keep tension on the brakes and don't walk because I'm trying to pressurise the sail.

I know it's the pilot and not the kite, but I was rewatching the low wind tutorial yet again to try get my brain to accept what it needs to do, and it looked like those lines were much longer than 20'

My brain knows what it should be doing, it's just not doing it. I need more time with wind to practice the flight and control skills, but I have to take what I got right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the light wind video, I'm on 60'x90#.

Sounds like it's just a matter of synchronizing the different aspects, I'm sure understand it, now to connect the movements. :)

You might try grading (slowing building up) your brake line tension after the kite turns over and starts dropping.

==

FYI, the directional microphone is scheduled to arrive today (last piece of equipment)...

Once it does, then I'll just be waiting for suitable weather to film more, as it's raining right now. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JB

Hmmmm .... 60's, that would (partly) explain my lack of glide time on the 20's smiley-blushing.gif

Yeah, as I sit here at my office desk and think about it, my brain knows exactly what it SHOULD be doing .... but once I hit the top of the window and either turn it over or over-fly, it all goes to pot in that moment. I think I need more time in some wind to practice turning over and either hovering (my inverted hover looks like a bucking bronco) or slow dive. I think that would certainly improve my control skill set for the glide and give me more thought time with the actions ingrained.

I have an indoor Rev on the way to play with which I hope helps (or I can just have fun with), as well as some 1.5 Race Rods. Other than that, any suggestions for zero wind flying on a 1.5 series in terms of setup and drills?

Excellent news on the video equipment, there are a number of topics on that list which are immediately relevant to me as well as shortly relevant (as soon as I got the immediate ones down). I actually got the 360 totally functional because as I went into it I was visualising your hand position and walking pace from one of your videos - think it might have been your SS Great Briton fly. The videos are a great tool for visualisation and allows me to channel my inner JB wink.gif

Now bring on the weekend and wind so I can get some practice....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no substitute for time on the lines, pure and simple.

For me, it's about going into "danger room" situations that remove crutches like wind and infinite field space... The SS video and my local dock are good examples.

It's those scenarios in which I've learned the most about handling a Rev. ;)

Your extra description of the inverted glide/hover further leads me to believe you're just manhandling it, being too sudden with your inputs.

Grade on/off the brake lines as needed, and try to make your movements a liquid as possible, not to-and-fro switches in the handles.

If the kite bucks while inverted, relax the brake lines so the kite starts to drop a little, then re-tension the brakes.

A slight downward motion, leading edge first, will help stabilize any inverted hover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no doubt I'm being an ape on the controls right now, if I wasn't I probably wouldn't be posting these problems. When I was visualising the 360 I saw on the video and was essentially placing myself into the sequence you ran it felt very smooth and fluid ... so I'd say thats further confirmation of the manhandling.

Since I'm still learning, gross motor skills kick in when the unknown occurs, thats why I have relatively little brake (compared to the pros here) in my setup when I'm learning something - I'm trying to damp out the gross movements some while I build the control needed. As I get comfy I try fly the same with more brake.

I'm learning loads about controlling a rev in these situations, but my poor brain still seems to stall sometimes. A bit of time in some wind and a lot more practice. I know I'll get it eventually, just orientating myself sometimes along my travels blue_biggrin.gif

There's a chance I get to fly in no wind tonight, will see how that goes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Ape on the controls" is a good description that I can relate to.

I'll tell you what I did with the inverted slides though.

First, I made longer top leaders so I could double the brakes then I put on brakes so I didn't have to fight my inverted hovers. You mention not using as much brake compared to the pros, but you are doing a disservice to yourself by not working with more brake right away. I was the same way until Rich C. pushed that advice on me and when I did everything became so much easier. Save yourself some time and frustration and get more brake. You don't need to be a pro to use brake (I'm a perfect example of that).

Second, once I got the hover sort of under control I did "ape" the controls to make it slide. I over exaggerated the movements to see what it would do and why it wouldn't do what I thought it should do. So I was getting some pretty wild slides with those gross movements, but I was learning easier what movements were doing what. Now, I still have slide issues, but generally much better and less ape as I continue to refine the exaggerated stuff.

Another idea I started last summer is to stop treating the kite like a fragile piece of glass. Really they are a lot tougher than they look (* not that I am saying be crazy with it) and taking that to the next level and just "try" stuff and see what the kite does. It might not be pretty at first, but you'll learn what does what and how to turn it into something that does look good. The kite wants to fly and it wants to be stable in the inverted hover. In fact it is the most stable in that position although it took me a while to feel that way even though I knew logically it should be. Now it is the "rest" position when something is going wrong or I need to talk to someone while the kite is still in the air, etc..

Of course once you figure out one thing you then see how taking it a bit further turns it into something else. Terry W. helped me to get a nice 180 turn figured out and a bit later it occured to me that I could take that 180 and make it into a 360 pretty easy so back to the gross movements and refining process.

Finally, repeat like John B. says. Whenever I go out I go through each "thing" many times between just experimenting and fooling around. Each time I tell myself that this repetition will mean more refined moves later and, ya know, it works. Things get more stable, the death grip loosens up and all the good things like that start to happen.

I'm rambling, but I can see exactly where you are right now and not a whole lot further ahead of you. Keep asking questions and thinking it through. Getting feedback on your thoughts helps a lot for sure.

Bart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aye, Bart has it right on... The less brake you have, the more you need to move your handles to apply brakes, and the more variables in your inputs.

More brake, smaller inputs, less pilot error.

Great post Bart.

With the 'long arm' notion that I have advocated there might be even smaller inputs and subsequently still less pilot error.

If 'long arm pulls' speed up one sail side relative to the other a turn can be executed without using the brake/forward input. If the resulting handle/arm position is good for the exit from the turn then a crisp/stable conclusion is achieved. The simplest example would be 180 degree upward wing tip turns. The handles will need to be held horizontally in order to avoid brake/forward input.

The advantage that I see in adopting this strategy is that it works across most of the wind speed range as long as sufficient brake is set for higher wind speeds. A one yard/metre pull on one handle will have equivalent impact in low or high wind speed.

Felix

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider more brake to be one of the "big secrets" to Rev flying. When you don't know about it you struggle more than you need to and wonder why it always looks easier for everyone else, but when you are let in on the secret you see it can be easier. And then you're really part of "the club"! cool.gif

So right now that brake secret is being whispered to you.

Bart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider more brake to be one of the "big secrets" to Rev flying. When you don't know about it you struggle more than you need to and wonder why it always looks easier for everyone else, but when you are let in on the secret you see it can be easier. And then you're really part of "the club"!

So right now that brake secret is being whispered to you.

Bart

We never articulated it as such but after trial and error over a number of years found that 'if the kite was actually quite difficult to launch' in the leading edge up position there were significant advantages in overall control. The problem is that 'a beginner' would possibly not overcome the 'difficult to launch' bit and retire hurt and give up.

There is a learning curve and possibly no short cut...

Felix

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Felix also hit on a good point...

The best pilots actually use nearly the same amount of input regardless of speed or snap, we just load up (draw back) and depressure (give toward the kite) more less to determine the strength and speed of what we're doing... If you watched only my hands for any given wind condition, the inputs don't change drastically, just the speed and amount of give or take that I put on the lines, keeping the line tension in my control, tensioning or detensioning depending on the amount of pull, speed of the kite and desired result.

Race frame, 1.5 is really ideal for what you're learning... Good balance of sail area, weight (inertia) and responsiveness... Think of it like a skateboarder instead of a kite, throw your weight into glides, stay out of the stall point (zero line tension), always jaw an exit route to keep some inertia, etc, etc.

The transitions between being a kite, being a glider, etc... 60' is long enough to glide and such, gives room to actually do stuff, and short enough to easily maintain line tension once you get the feel for it.

I hope that I've managed to describe all that clearly?

It's theory, deep mechanics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Felix also hit on a good point...

The best pilots actually use nearly the same amount of input regardless of speed or snap, we just load up (draw back) and depressure (give toward the kite) more less to determine the strength and speed of what we're doing... If you watched only my hands for any given wind condition, the inputs don't change drastically, just the speed and amount of give or take that I put on the lines, keeping the line tension in my control, tensioning or detensioning depending on the amount of pull, speed of the kite and desired result.

<snip>

JB,

I think that I have to try and translate here. I think that we are probably in complete agreement but the terminology may be confusing.

To put it very simply, if we take the model of a tissue and bamboo fighter kite, pulling on the line causes the kite to bow and travel forward in line with the keel of the kite. The Revolution kite has two keels (the upright spars, side by side). If we accelerate one keel it will turn around the other one...

With the Revolution we have the additional capability to adjust brake/forward for each side of the sail 'on the fly'.

The best pilots will be able to take advantage of directional tracking and appropriate angling of the sail at any point in the wind window. There is no magic, nothing deep, only practical considerations.

Felix

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just added two more tutorials to the Kitelife channel on YouTube, covering the Larks Head Knot and Line Equalization...

In addition, we've also added tutorials for Tuning Theory I and Inverted Hover to our Kitelife subscribers section. ;)

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showcat=106

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lightbulb moment ....

Watching the inverted hover video, I could really see how the flexation in the frame (especially the verticals) was acting like flaps and flying the kite, filling the sail, etc.

I'm going to need to get someone to video my Rev at the end of my lines as I'm working on hovers (normal and sideways, not inverted for now) to see how much flexation I'm getting. Having sacrificed a few bits of carbon on duals and 1 Rev 4-wrap (all while learning) I usually go with 4 wraps every time. Granted we tend to have stronger wind here (which is why kite surfing is so popular), but I may be over-engineering to safeguard against breakage and being counter-productive to control.

What may be useful in the videos is to state what wind speeds, kite, frame and line set you are using. This would also have the added bonus of helping new people start to match setup to conditions.

Great material which should really accelerate my learning time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition to the stuff we've put up on YouTube, here are the latest videos uploaded for Kitelife subscribers...

Tuning Theory I - http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=684

Inverted Hover - http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=683

Bicycle Rotation - http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=691

I'll be curious to hear more feedback on all the tutorials, it helps me a great deal with how to improve and expand in the future!

With regard to wind/equipment, I think I'll stay away from identifying them in the individual tutorials, because I like the idea of folks focusing on the skills, not the equipment.

In terms of choosing the right gear, at some point, I'll try to do a video on some of the signs folks can look for or what equipment to utilize for various conditions. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've downloaded and watched all of them already (incl kitelife ones) at work ... I'm just rewatching them as I get a chance to try pick up more things and let it all sink in.

I guess you could cover the choosing of the right gear in a video that covers the different types of gear (indoor, EXP, SLE, B, B-Pro, Zen, rods, etc) and where they are applicable and why.

Now that I mention it, when the weather isn't that great, how about some indoor rev stuff? tongue.gif

One thing that I'm still trying to get right in my head is your hands. At times they're twitching like theres no tomorrow and then you'll start talking and they go dead still ... yet the kite is still holding the same position. Sometimes you do the opposite - you'll be holding steady and then you wave the relevant bottom line drastically to show which line you're talking about and yet the kite does nothing. wacko.gif

I guess thats coming under posture and hand position....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly, I don't have a local indoor venue... I'd very much like to do some indoor tuts, but no place to do it. :(

What you're seeing in the twitching is compensation, and the same for the "illustrated" one hand movements, using the other hand or line.

Body, posture and hand position are a separate item, having to do with relaxed stance, ergonomics and efficiency.

Choosing the right Rev equipment is really tough to encompass in a video tutorial, because there are so many choices, very few narrow answers, just a few key things to look for (over flexing of the leading edge or conversely, not enough lift).

Sadly, that's one of those things that a lot of folks will simply have to experiment and do the research on.

BEAUTIFUL weather today, going to go and try for some more filming. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ALL tutorials can be found on Kitelife (subscribers section) in both HD and iPod formats, YouTube has some of those as well (the basics).

11 total tutorials, 6 of which are on YouTube too... This does not include the grid intro, which I don't really count as instructional, more informational. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...