khalathur Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 The first time I tried a cartwheel I actually tried a moonwalk (and didn't know it). I found the first rotation of a moonwalk far easier to do than the first rotation of a cartwheel, especially if I'm traveling right to left. Yes, exactly! Besides the slip vs. no-slip thing, I'm starting to think that this is also in part because I'm far more used to flying horizontally and turning up rather than down (without losing altitiude). It feels more natural becasue it's close to something that I'm doing all the time anyway. I wonder if I can make progress on the cartwheel by practicing flying horizontally and turning 180 deg down to change direction, just to train my hands to that motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 So the "stationary bicycle" is better referred to as a pinwheel? Make it more and it is the bicycle or cartwheel? Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 <snip> JB has mentioned the full sail many times. We need that in the middle of the wind window with the kite neutral, as in not going off in any direction. I'm advocating hands down at thigh level with handles horizontal and an active stance. I'm waiting to hear of alternative suggestions to this position. Felix I second this as a good "neutral" stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 <snip> I wonder if I can make progress on the cartwheel by practicing flying horizontally and turning 180 deg down to change direction, just to train my hands to that motion. This is how Watty recommended to practice, while flying horizontally, turn 180 degrees (practice the down turn and up turn) and continue flying horizontally in the original direction. Practicing in this manner started me on my way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 So the bicycle is performed higher in the window and the cartwheel and moonwalk closer to the ground?? The bicycle, cartwheel and "Hadzicki Shuffle" as far back as I can determine are the same, just different names. None are touching the ground nor as far as I can determine the height off the ground does not really matter. The only exception to this was when there was a compulsory figure in the past that specified that it should be a certain percentage of the wind window above the ground. The "moonwalk" is movement in the same directions as above with opposite rotations. Left to right, rotate anti-clockwise. Right to left rotate clockwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 So the "stationary bicycle" is better referred to as a pinwheel? Make it more and it is the bicycle or cartwheel? Bart For the stationary, "pinwheel" or "spin" would be more correct names. I would favor pinwheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I would agree that "pinwheel" is a better representation. I had described them as "bicycle turns" was well. Watty's fly forward, 180 turn, fly reverse didn't respond well for me. Katrina's looking beyond or ahead sorta worked once or twice, but then I lost it. The little arcs inverted and upright have worked the best but I need to tap the tips on the ground to properly visualize it all at this stage. As the others have mentioned my mind seems to like the moonwalk version better but I've resisted going in that direction until I get the standard one sorted out in my head. Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 "Pinwheel" is how I shall describe a stationary spin from now on. When I perform one, it totally reminds me of the pinwheel plastic spinners I'd play with as a kid. I would use "Hadzicki Shuffle", if only I could confidently pronounce the name... I still think the terms "Cartwheel" and "Bicycle" should be used to describe 2 different tricks, even though they are so similar.... Tapping the LE tips to the ground really makes the presentation different. I like them both, and the Moonwalk, very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Maybe "cartwheel" should be the ground touch version and "bicycle" remains in the air only? I like "moonwalk" for sure and agree that the "pinwheel" reminds me exactly of a pinwheel when I was a kid. Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 As bicycle and cartwheel have been used interchangeably for the same maneuver for around twenty years, I would suggest coming up with another word. This will eliminate any future confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 How about groundroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Tumble? Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey! I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey! I like that. Cool! Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Tumble sounds good to me! Attempting this trick after having a couple beers could be called the "tumbler" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Pinwheel is a perfect description, only thing is it's already used to describe a team maneuver. "Spin" isn't nearly as nice a descriptor. Bart, don't forget you've been practicing in inland winds. I bet your cartwheels will be absolutely perfect the moment you hit the coast. I haven't been touching the tips! Will have to try that. Another thing I found helpful: I stopped trying to do cartwheels, or I guess bicycles, and did nothing but clockwork practice right next to the ground for about 20 minutes. Went back to bicycle, suddenly better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes, 100% correct on the inland winds. I'm hoping to verify if I really know anything on the beach again then work out the kinks on that and anything new I can before bringing it all home. Last year I noticed that the week in ocean breezes make a positive impact in coping with the inland stuff so I want to build further on that. Maybe it has to be a "pinwheel spin" then since the team version is not really a spin if I remember correctly? Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think johnnmitchell is right regarding names and confusion.... Since "pinwheel" is already in use, maybe we should come up with a new name. "Fan"? "Windmill"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I am working, ever so slowly, on some Flash animations for the bicycle and moonwalk. I'll post here the URL when they are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I am working, ever so slowly, on some Flash animations for the bicycle and moonwalk. I'll post here the URL when they are ready. Not wishing to impose any pressure whatsoever but have you any further thoughts on the Super 16? Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I second this as a good "neutral" stance. In a strong breeze it may be counter-intuitive to try to hold ones arms straight down but I am finding that the ability to 'throw forwards' to stop and 'pull backwards' to accelerate is good if the kite is set on full brakes. Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Not wishing to impose any pressure whatsoever but have you any further thoughts on the Super 16? Felix I have been enjoying a very nice summer with a lot of work outside. I have not put much thought into Super16 recently. Do you have any additional ideas and preferences? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercFlyer Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 So when ever you guys decide what it's called I am happy to say that today I was able to do some passable stationary bicycle rotations for six to eight rotations before it fell apart:lol:. Very satisfactory to see, I can't await for the across the window spins:rev_clockwork:! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have been enjoying a very nice summer with a lot of work outside. I have not put much thought into Super16 recently. Do you have any additional ideas and preferences? J No additional ideas at this stage. Just need some practical experience! Glad to hear that you are enjoying a nice summer. We've not had much of one in the UK... Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 No additional ideas at this stage. Just need some practical experience! <snip> Then again, I had wondered about 'rolling the grid'! <gins> Only a quarter turn one way, you understand... Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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