Interesting discussion

[Simon]

To be an AKA-ranked event (i.e. regional/national points towards the AKA championships), I believe the AKA rules need to be used.

However, it is also possible to receive AKA-sanctioning (i.e. insurance, etc) and run a comp of your own design (such as Tricks Party), as long as it's safe and in good taste.

So there would be no problem having it under the second option as most Novices might not be too worried about National points? Or do they look for those in the Novice ranks in the US?

If I compete in Novice non sanctioned in 2009, can I then compete in experienced sanctioned 2010?

That as a flyer I might need to consider?

In the UK an event for quad could be called a Rev event as no one really competes with anything other than a Rev. Could a novice series be created called the Revolution cup? It could be used like a one make series in racing cars to help bring on new flyers. MIX format like you say, and as a prize for the overall winner, maybe something like a B Pro?

[dean750]

How many comps are here on the west coast?

Mr. Barresi? will you fly novice if it happens? Fly one handed?

I will now admit, that just flying within 240 feet of *cough, cough* intimidates me and I really do suck.

Don't know why, but he has this control killing ability.

Need to get over it. So come fly one handed and take a few whoopings so I can get over myself.

Dean

[KiteLife]

NW comp schedule... http://nwskl.org/events.htm

Doesn't look like any outdoor comps are on the docket, very strange.

Surely this goes back to what I'm saying... Why blow $300 to attend an event, all to spend 30 minutes in the air and take home a paper certificate that says you beat 5 other people?

MIX format, PLEASE.

[dean750]

I can agree with the money thing with money being so scarce. At least for my family anyway.

I guess I wasn't thinking about that part.

I was thinking about the self gratification. A sense of accomplishment through hard work, recognized by your peers....

How do the walls and shelves just inside your door make you feel? Personally I mean. How does it feel to be recognized as one of the best at what you do? Would you be where you are in the kiting world without competing?

I'm not saying my goal is fame and fortune. I just miss being able to compare my skills on a given day against others. Thats just the kinda person I have always been. It's a hard thing to change for me. I know I come off arrogant, but what it is, is just my way of getting over being shy and withdrawn and to show my desire to learn by challenging a person to put me in my place in flying. I guess I'm not really worried about being better, but equal.

Dean

[KiteLife]

For me, competition has been very gratifying...

But I came up through a different era, and actually got trophies and cups, which they just don't give out any more due to costs... Now it's all ribbons and paper certificates, and the competition is much weaker... Back in the day, it was a shoot out between 10-15 different pilots, and now, it's usually two top guns duking it out, or one severely dominant pilot.

In 2005, 2006 and 2007, I was whipping masters multiline by 10-15 points each outing... That's not gratifying at all.

The only place where you see anything even close to that level these days is at AKA Nationals, end of the year.

Novice and Experienced is a bit more balanced, but imho, true "masters" pilots are far and fewer between these days.

In 2007, I had 126 top three awards... Competing in 10-14 categories per event, taking 1-3 in each... Got old.

I've got boxes and boxes of plaques, ribbons, etc, all in my closet... The only stuff on my shelf now is national championship awards.

I'm not trying to sound cheeky here, it's just my perspective, coming from 18 years of competition experience, having seen a great deal more than most of the people on any kite forum.

[Simon]

For me, competition has been very gratifying...

But I came up through a different era, and actually got trophies and cups, which they just don't give out any more due to costs... Now it's all ribbons and paper certificates, and the competition is much weaker... Back in the day, it was a shoot out between 10-15 different pilots, and now, it's usually two top guns duking it out, or one severely dominant pilot.

In 2005, 2006 and 2007, I was whipping masters multiline by 10-15 points each outing... That's not gratifying at all.

The only place where you see anything even close to that level these days is at AKA Nationals, end of the year.

Novice and Experienced is a bit more balanced, but imho, true "masters" pilots are far and fewer between these days.

In 2007, I had 126 top three awards... Competing in 10-14 categories per event, taking 1-3 in each... Got old.

I've got boxes and boxes of plaques, ribbons, etc, all in my closet... The only stuff on my shelf now is national championship awards.

I'm not trying to sound cheeky here, it's just my perspective, coming from 18 years of competition experience, having seen a great deal more than most of the people on any kite forum.

Hi John,

doesnt sound cheeky.

But unfortunately its the truth, I too grew up competing in another era. I have boxes of cups & plaques, but then when The Flying Squad developed we dominated so much that after a very short time we had won everything. It was partly as a result of this we moved more to demo. We also agreed with The Decorators in that you have more freedom to expand what you do outside of competition.

Competition will come around again it goes in cycles.

PS the only trophy on display, is the one at the bottom of this page http://www.theflyingsquad.org/membership.htm My son's first International Invite - Valencia 2004

[Felix]

<snip>

We also agreed with The Decorators in that you have more freedom to expand what you do outside of competition.

<snip>

I am very interested, especially after Portsmouth/Bristol last year, to see what can be done with collaboration as opposed to competition.

In the current environment I think that it is a concept (collaboration that is) that should be pursued in considerable detail. Consider the format of collaborative events. Set the agenda, the rules... get my drift?

Felix

[KiteLife]

I get your drift in spades Felix, which is why I'm entirely focused on clinics, iQuad, Kitelife, etc as of late...

We're able to reach WAY more people outside the confines of competition.

I've said for years, you can't readily make new competitors from non-fliers, but you can make new fliers.

[Felix]

I get your drift in spades Felix, which is why I'm entirely focused on clinics, iQuad, Kitelife, etc as of late...

We're able to reach WAY more people outside the confines of competition.

I've said for years, you can't readily make new competitors from non-fliers, but you can make new fliers.

I was thinking about the structure of an event where say 20 or 30 Rev fliers turned up. Some may be in formal teams, others may be 'individual' fliers. At Portsmouth/Bristol the lead fell to certain individuals and there was some question as to the level of control that was required in order to 'pull it off'. From a practical point of view I do think that it would be advantageous to discuss the rules of engagement further. However, I am not personally going to push it but will look forward to seeing how everyone gets together as at Berck, Rougham etc. in the near future.

Dare I ask, who is going to be at Berck? Do we have 36 on the second weekend?

Felix

[dean750]

Thank you JB for that insight. Again I wasn't really looking at the big picture.

So the goal is to get as many people flying Revs and having FUN as possible. Skill levels and competitive fliers will come about in they're own time.

If I was to compete, I would rather have a whole class to compete against. Not just a couple or one to aim to beat.

So thank you again JB for setting me strait.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to struggle to get at least close to your level of skill and showmanship

You (JB) started my kiting obsession way back when. The goal of mine is still the same with a small tweak. Equal or able to hang is good enough

If not sooner, I'll see ya at the clinic. Hopefully with a little better luck than the last time we flew

Dean

Ever thought about a street flying clinic????

[KiteLife]

So the goal is to get as many people flying Revs and having FUN as possible.

Skill levels and competitive fliers will come about in they're own time.

BAM! Right on the head...

Only a certain % of humans want to enter a competitive format, so out of 100, how many is that?

Totally rhetorical question.

Increase that figure to 2000, now you have a competitive class, naturally.

[Felix]

BAM! Right on the head...

Only a certain % of humans want to enter a competitive format, so out of 100, how many is that?

Totally rhetorical question.

Increase that figure to 2000, now you have a competitive class, naturally.

So how many would want to collaborate?

We are asking a 'new question' now in the light of recent developments...

Felix

[KiteLife]

For sake of discussion Felix, can you recap and clarify what you mean when you say "collaborate"?

==

FYI, I've sent the link for this discussion to Russ Faulk, the Chair of our AKA's Sport Kite Committee.

Hopefully he'll share it with his associates in the AKA.

[Felix]

For sake of discussion Felix, can you recap and clarify what you mean when you say "collaborate"?

==

FYI, I've sent the link for this discussion to Russ Faulk, the Chair of our AKA's Sport Kite Committee.

Hopefully he'll share it with his associates in the AKA.

I cannot recap as it is not something I have related previously. However, lets take it forward by proposing a structure in which we can organise ourselves. The current teams do carry a little historical baggage which I think should be addressed. Some lead from the right, some from the left. That is not a big deal, lets agree to alternate. Default turns may be up or down, there are advantages both ways.

In collaboration it may be assumed that we would be playing to the lowest common denominator or accommodating the least able performer. I do think that there is a perceptual problem here in that the collective achievement can far outweigh the individual capabilities. I think that the spirit of the clinics that iQuad have operated demonstrate this and my suggestion would be for the fliers to embrace the concept.

Stephen Hoath did a fantastic job in pulling the fliers together at Portsmouth and Bristol. The structure that I envisage should make it easier and hopefully less stressful for any individual undertaking a leading role.

To recap, The Decorators gave up competitive flying one week and the next week won a competition at Scheveningen, Holland where we flew in the single line arena for the whole weekend.

All we need is for the fliers to own the hover..... <grins>

[KiteLife]

So to clarify, you're talking about mega team exhibitions when you say "collaborate", is this right?

While I'm all for continuing this progression as we've done over the past 12 months, the meat of this topic relates to competition, how to improve (or streamline) it and make it more appealing to the general public, as well as those fliers who have dropped out for any of the reasons brought up earlier in this topic.

For team exhibition collaboration, if I understand you right, may I propose a new topic area for this?

[dean750]

So here's a thought on topic....

Precision is boring for the people not flying. It's all about the ballet and how it's presented and how the watchers percieve it. Right? kinda, maybe in a way?? LOL

So while Precision may be part of the compitition, does it have to be out front, or could that part take place on a side field while ballets are taking place on center stage? That way one class is flying the precision side while another class is flying their ballets. Makes the comp run quicker while really only throwing the best to watch at the general public.

I believe someone asked if comps could be created strictly for Rev's by Rev fliers that could somehow maybe tie into national and world championship comps. I think that might be a way to think about it. Or maybe a whole day devoted to just Rev compition. Make any sense or am I just thinking too hard? Cause you know, that could be the case.

Rev only qualifiers to bigger events kinda sounds pretty cool. A really big fun fly for points. What kinda Mega Fly do you think you could get out of an event like that???

Dean

[KiteLife]

There's nothing preventing us from running exactly what you've described, a Rev only (multi-line actually) event, with individual, pairs and team, say at Kite Henge... Put ballet in the forefront, run precision in the back (heck - we can even drop the freestyle portion of precision if we want - do compulsories only)... All the while, still earning points towards AKA.

However, I'm of the opinion that this is cart before the horse... We're still a dozen or so serious quad fliers short in the NW, but that's probably no more than a year away.

Doing a Rev-centric event at Kite Henge has been on my radar since a few months before RevGuild started up, I'd love to see it happen perhaps in July of 2010 or 2011... Invite some "top guns" from other parts of the country, even the world, and make a real go of it with workshops, games, competition, demonstrations and learn to fly fields for the public.

A 50/50 focus on specific public outreach, which is something that US competitions severely lack these days.

But again, we need more fliers first.

[dean750]

your getting us there. Just threw a thought out there so when there is enough interest and skill there has already been some thought so getting something going has been in the works and won't take as long to put together.

out to fly, Enough wind for my vented. Come on Bazz... I'm patient, just Jonesin'.

[KiteLife]

You're right on Dean, not only do we need more fliers, but we need more like you who are so hungry.

Don't let us stop you!

[dean750]

Until YOU retire and quit flying, I'll always have a target to aim at

I think I can, I think I can.....

Dean

[KiteLife]

Ha, retire? Quit flying?

Pffft, you better find something better to smoke.

[dean750]

Then I guess I never have to worry about not getting better.

Just hope you can put up with my attitude. But I'm sure you don't mind putting my feet back on the ground.

"So you think your pretty good eh? WHAP!!! Snap back to reality, this is how you do it...."

Dean

[ssm1nw]

I am a newbie to rev flying, less than a year and am having great fun.

In the past I have been a skydiving instructor and entered competitions as well but found for me it took some of the fun out of it.

At the moment I am having great fun learning and flying with others and have no plans to enter competitions.

I think that sometimes entering a scratch team at the last minute was fun where we had a set routine to complete was fun but having the months of training to comlete wasnt for me.

Keith

[KiteLife]

You're right Dean, I love putting you in your place... Keep improving, so I don't have to (I mean that).

Keith, yeah, totally... Now, iQuad balances between "busking" (improv) and a set routine, we're pretty happy with it.

We're still not competing, and we don't meet to practice, except at events.

[dean750]

Oh, I'll improve but I'm sure you'll be putting me in my place for a while. Then one day YOU'LL get the whap!!! and you'll hear, "Are you going senial? What the hell are you doing? Trying to make me look good?"

Dean