Which Rev Kite for a beginner?

[FlyingFrog]

Hi Guys, I'm new to this forum and Revolution Kites. I have spent quite a time Power kiting and buggying but due to a buggy accident I am selling up my power kites and buggy so that I can go over to flying a Revolution kite. I already fly twin line delta stunt kites and have experience with 4 line kites. The advice that I am looking for is:

Which model of Revolution kite would you all suggest as the best for me to start learning with? I do not necessarily want the cheapest as a "better" or more advanced model will save me from upgatding later. At the same time I can't afford the most expensive on the market. Also what UK Revolution Dealer is the best to go to and finally, are there any places I could possibly find a pre-owned Revolution Kite as a starter model?

Sorry this is a bit long winded but I love my kiting and don't want to buy the wrong one or one that isn't suitable for me.

[big bri]

Pete]FF]also has a slight high wind fear/fobia.He got a nasty injury with his power kite when it lifted him in a freek gust and dumped him hard .Then his buggie landed on him from a nice height.

Hes the only person that when you mention a jb vented .He Starts to shake and have flashbacks.Im sure we can all cure him in time.

BRIAN...

[dean750]

Does the JB Vented pull that hard? Or is it the high wind thingy? LOL, I'm sure it doesn't pull as hard as a Rev 1 in 20 mph winds. Try mentioning a stack and see if you can get him crosseyed. Only way to beat a fear is to face it.

All right, maybe this is one of those things you can ease into. The vented would be a good start. You'll get him through I'm sure. Could maybe dog stake him to the ground, that might ease some stress.

Dean

[dean750]

Or with as much wind as it sounds like ya'all have over there he could start out sitting down.

[fortflyer]

Lack of experience is definitely on the table for discussion.

However, Ben was being very scotch with the epoxy when my 2-wraps were made ... they average 10.9 grams ... very light (actually I think it's the new light weight silver labels, but that's another story for another time). 10.9 grams is much less than folks advertise as the weight of their race rods.

I was being a copy cat on the moves during the club fly. Even for the simple moves, where the necessary skill level is basic, side-by-side my non-vented simply wouldn't react as well as the SULs. Unfortunately, we were rained out before I had the opportunity to switch kites and test the experience factor. I wonder if John and Ben would like to have a real world test of a B-series SUL kite ... probably not ... after all I only bought one DVD of John washing his kite in the lake ... maybe if I'd have bought a second DVD ... oh well, maybe next time.

Cheers,

Tom

The thing most people don't get about the race rod is I don't think its supposed to be lighter by much or if at all, its the fact that they are roughly as light as a 2 wrap with the stiffness of a 3 wrap.

What that boils down to is yes they will bend quite a bit but they snap back to shape much faster than a noodley 2 wrap would, in essence you want a slight bow in the kite but too much can also be just as bad as none.

The wonder of the race rod is the response in lighter wind, a beginner wouldn't notice the difference but if you have used the 2 wraps for some time then try them out you will see the advantages.

The great thing about the last year or 2 with Revolution Kites is that beginners are now getting things right away on the top end that most people never had without customizing, 1 example the adjustable leaders with the B-series, if you didn't see someone with them most likely you never knew that you could do line adjustments and trim the controls.

Now all I wish is for a good idea to use all the SLE rods I have laying around besides whipping antman

[dean750]

Someone mentioned using the SLE rods for gardening Fort. I was thinking of suggesting wind chimes. Maybe with a Rev shaped knocker. Or maybe that would be the main hanging board would be the Rev shape with the different chimes being placed at all the bridle points. HMM, maybe that would be cool, with a smaller Rev shape or two as knockers. Kinda like a progressive stack sort of.

Just a thought.

Dean

[Jeepster]

The thing most people don't get about the race rod is I don't think its supposed to be lighter by much or if at all, its the fact that they are roughly as light as a 2 wrap with the stiffness of a 3 wrap.

What that boils down to is yes they will bend quite a bit but they snap back to shape much faster than a noodley 2 wrap would, in essence you want a slight bow in the kite but too much can also be just as bad as none.

The wonder of the race rod is the response in lighter wind, a beginner wouldn't notice the difference but if you have used the 2 wraps for some time then try them out you will see the advantages.

Now all I wish is for a good idea to use all the SLE rods I have laying around besides whipping antman

Going off on vacation, so posting for the next week will be sporadic at best ...

Since I admittedly have no experience with race rods, all my knowledge(?) has been gleaned from forum posts. Thus, I could be all wrong in what I gathered from listening from the sidelines. What I heard was that the advantage of the race rods was exactly as you stated ... as light as a two wrap and as stiff as a three wrap. Thus, they yielded a kite system that weighed the same as one with a 2-wrap frame, but enabled the kite to fly in winds that required a 3-wrap frame set. Oh, and they are stiffer with different rebound characteristics.

You've added a new dimension when you explain that the stiffer frame also helps when flying in light winds ... you said race rods aren't as noodley as 2-wraps.

But, then you go on to bemoan the SLE rods because they are too stiff for good kite control.

What am I missing ... at first glance those two statements seem contradictory?

BTW, the winds we were flying in were so light that the 2-wraps were not really bending much at all. Thus, I concluded that any flotsam or jetsam I could pitch overboard would help the kite stay aloft ... even with my inexperience, less weight should help. An SUL kite weights about 75% of a non-vented ... sure seems like it's in the correct direction.

[fortflyer]

OK I'll try and explain how I feel the difference the best I can though I may be hitting the nail in my explanation I may not be totally driving it in straight.

The SLE for 1 is too heavy for light wind while you want the sail spread as much as possible to catch as much air which the SLE does, you also want a bellowing effect to capture the air in order to utilize it and direct it better over the sail or it just pulls harder and sheets off quickly and inefficiently.

In higher winds this may not matter with the SLE which is commonly regarded to as a 5 wrap if I am correct, given the chance you get to fly in say 5-10 mph roughly and have the SLE and a 1/4" 3 or 4 wrap fly each for a few and notice the difference.

You can fly a kite in this wind range with an SLE but when you change the LE to say a 3 wrap or even 4 when the sail bellows then you will feel the added control because you are utilizing and directing the wind where you want it for a longer period before sheet off.

What the race rods do is allow the bellow at lower wind speed but also spring back for air capture faster to reload wind, It's hard to explain its much better off being felt I'm sure someone can explain this much better then I can.

With the higher wind the SLE will very noticeably cause an over steering effect the higher the wind gets now granted the rigidity allows the kite to fly in higher winds at the loss of some control now with the 4 wrap 1/4" you can achieve high wind control better or for really high wind you can double up LE's say 3 and 4 wrap creating a so called 7 wrap while still being lighter then a SLE yet still giving that slight curve for efficiency and actually less pull.

Again feeling the difference says 1,000 words, it's pretty much in the aerodynamics of the kite that a lighter more responsive frame will allow you to utilize it better.

For the record people have flown race rods to almost 20 mph anything over 10 and I just switch because its long past the benefits for a particular wind range thats just my opinion.

Now I have also flown a 3 wrap on a vented in 25-30 mph which again 2 x 1/4" LE's would have been better and gotten to the point where the wingtips were almost touching that brought me back to it folding up too much and the kite just wanted to over steer and roll too easily in turns almost to a spiraling effect.

Sometimes I think your better off not knowing all this but then again it helps to have a clue to maximize ones flying comfort and fun.

Hope you can get something out of that because I think I may have overly explained it as I'm reading it going :confused!:

[big bri]

Going off on vacation, so posting for the next week will be sporadic at best ...

Since I admittedly have no experience with race rods, all my knowledge(?) has been gleaned from forum posts. Thus, I could be all wrong in what I gathered from listening from the sidelines. What I heard was that the advantage of the race rods was exactly as you stated ... as light as a two wrap and as stiff as a three wrap. Thus, they yielded a kite system that weighed the same as one with a 2-wrap frame, but enabled the kite to fly in winds that required a 3-wrap frame set. Oh, and they are stiffer with different rebound characteristics.

You've added a new dimension when you explain that the stiffer frame also helps when flying in light winds ... you said race rods aren't as noodley as 2-wraps.

But, then you go on to bemoan the SLE rods because they are too stiff for good kite control.

What am I missing ... at first glance those two statements seem contradictory?

BTW, the winds we were flying in were so light that the 2-wraps were not really bending much at all. Thus, I concluded that any flotsam or jetsam I could pitch overboard would help the kite stay aloft ... even with my inexperience, less weight should help. An SUL kite weights about 75% of a non-vented ... sure seems like it's in the correct direction.

I would read the post of Fortflyer again.I read it as the RR are not as noodley,but snap back much quicker,which is a great discription i think.

Race rods are stronger than a 3 wrap and liter than a 2 wrap.The spring back is the big thing on them.Ther worth the money once you get them working.

Have a good Holiday btw

BRIAN...

.

[FlyingFrog]

Well Guys, I have taken note of all that you have said and the advice that I have been given, and I have finally made my decision. To answer Baloo's question and not keep you in suspence any longer I have ordered and paid for a Revolution 1.5 SLE in Red, White and Blue (Very Patriotic). Kiteworld are waiting for a new consignment to arrive from The States, which they expect at the beginning of next week so now I'm sat like a kid waiting for Christmas Morning. Let's just hope that we have some reasonable weather and winds next week. Thanks for all the help and advice, I hope to meet some of you on the flying fields at some time in the future.

You're a great bunch, thanks!

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

Well written FF.

You've added a new dimension when you explain that the stiffer frame also helps when flying in light winds ... you said race rods aren't as noodley as 2-wraps.

But, then you go on to bemoan the SLE rods because they are too stiff for good kite control.

What am I missing ... at first glance those two statements seem contradictory?

Think Goldilocks and The Three Bears here, “not too hard, not too soft”. The Race Rods are yielding too absorb the inertia then quickly snapping back flat to offer more sail to the wind.

When the Race Rods were first announced there was a lot of hype and toto say I was extremely sceptical would be an understatement but I have to say when I tried them I was blow away. They work, I’m not sure how or why but they work.

I guess sometimes you just have to accept the magic.

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

@FF

Congratulations, good choice mate though can I suggest that you give Steve another ring and ask him to slip in an EXP leading edge with your order, trust me, it won’t be long before you will be looking for one it will give you a load more scope in lower wind.

I’ve just checked their website and £25 will give you that extra kite I spoke of earlier in this thread.

[FlyingFrog]

I hear what you are saying Stone In The Shoe Bob, and this is one of the things that have influenced my decision. At the moment I am on a very tight budget so I have had to get the best that I can afford for now. I have chosen the SLE so that I can upgrade with different rods etc at a later date when I have a bit of experience and when finances allow me to. For now it looks like the SLE seems the best model for me to "cut my teeth on".

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

There once was a fairy called Nuff.

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Fairy Nuff.

[Baloo]

I hear what you are saying Stone In The Shoe Bob, and this is one of the things that have influenced my decision. At the moment I am on a very tight budget so I have had to get the best that I can afford for now. I have chosen the SLE so that I can upgrade with different rods etc at a later date when I have a bit of experience and when finances allow me to. For now it looks like the SLE seems the best model for me to "cut my teeth on".

Sounds cool to me FF, ANY Rev is better than NO Rev, the SLE is as good a place to start as almost any. You can as you say swap the rods out at a later date.

I have just got back from flying my Revs with Princess Ann, well not as much actually flying WITH her, flying at her House while she was there. More accuratly, flying at Gatcombe estate. I was helping out at the Cross Country Horse Festival. Driving round the woods to demonstrate Range Rovers, it was AWFULL but I suppose if anyone has to do it then I might as well. Got a good few hours flying in the evenings.

If you can make it to either Portsmouth or Bristol kite festivals you are more than welcome to try any of my kites out. ?Then you will have a good idea of what to go for next.

[big bri]

Hello Pete,get over to Bolton le sands if ya can.I will let ya try a spare rev.Im sure i have a spare.

BRIAN...

[FlyingFrog]

Hello Pete,get over to Bolton le sands if ya can.I will let ya try a spare rev.Im sure i have a spare.

BRIAN...

Hi Bri, I have a new 1.5 SLE on order which I hope will arrive mid-week. Is it the BLS meet this week-end please

[big bri]

Sure is Pete.

BRIAN...

[FlyingFrog]

Sure is Pete.

BRIAN...

Hi Bri, I will try to get there but we have a bit of a "Family Crisis" going on at the moment so I'm not sure if it will be possible as I might have to travel down to Bristol at very short notice. Thanks for the invite and the offer of help!

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

. . . . . .

I might have to travel down to Bristol at very short notice. . . .

If you have family in Bristol, any chance we will see you there an the end of the month?

If you do manage it and you see a short fat middle aged bloke with a Rev and a limp, please come over and say "Hi".

[FlyingFrog]

If you have family in Bristol, any chance we will see you there an the end of the month?

If you do manage it and you see a short fat middle aged bloke with a Rev and a limp, please come over and say "Hi".

Hi Bob, Thanks for the offer but due to the nature of the "Crisis" I don't think that it would be advisable as I might not be very good company. Hopefully another time.

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

Point taken. There's no such thing as a good crises is there.

I will be thinking of you.

[Jeepster]

I would read the post of Fortflyer again. I read it as the RR are not as noodley,but snap back much quicker,which is a great discription i think.

Race rods are stronger than a 3 wrap and liter than a 2 wrap.The spring back is the big thing on them.Ther worth the money once you get them working.

Have a good Holiday btw

BRIAN...

No, I haven't been on vacation during all of August ... just cogitating on the entire thread before getting back into the discussion. First let me tell you that I bought an SUL kite and a RR frame set ... used to get in trouble as a kid 'cuz I had to try stuff for myself ... looks like that hasn't changed. The kite and RR set arrived yesterday along with an all day rain ... damn. I've now got all of the variables covered except experience ... will be working on that.

However, I really changed my mind on the equipment thought process last Saturday during the IKE club fly. It was a perfect day for practicing light wind flying ... about two or three mile per hour winds gusting to zero. When the winds would start to disappear, I would end up slowly sink to the ground in frustration ... after a little more drop in the wind the more experienced members would join me on the ground. But it seemed like no matter how light the winds would get Papa Smurf from iQuad would be flying like he was standing in the only breeze in Illinois. And yes, he could do it with my kite also.

My conclusion from a month of thinking and a hour of watching Papa Smurf is that equipment will help, but technique is the over riding difference. It's either that or magic!

[fortflyer]

Smurfs are rumored to have magical powers

Yes you are correct technique plays the biggest part but the right equipment does make it much easier, SUL with RR's your going to love that set up for under 10 mph.

[Baloo]

Think you have hit the nail on the head. What all the "pro" fliers hve is a bit of magic in thier fingers.

And a lot of the semi pro, and yet to become semi folks too of course.

Sadly, my fingers lack magic. I am told however all is not lost.

Practice, practice, practice. Then when it all comes together just practice some more.

[Felix]

Think you have hit the nail on the head. What all the "pro" fliers hve is a bit of magic in thier fingers.

And a lot of the semi pro, and yet to become semi folks too of course.

Sadly, my fingers lack magic. I am told however all is not lost.

Practice, practice, practice. Then when it all comes together just practice some more.

Try flying with your 'finger tips' (and thumb tips of course); that is possibly where the 'magic' lies! <grins> No gripping the handles here.

I am sure that it will not be an easy transition but in conjunction with long arms and smooth movement on the ground all will be revealed. Not something to be learned in an afternoon, of course.

The 180 degree upward turn can, with a long arm pull, inject a height gain that can be used in zero wind conditions to gain ground advantage. I have mentioned getting the kite to the top of the window and then facing down with maximum reverse and moving forwards as fast as is sustainable. This is another way of gaining ground advantage.

In low winds the effective air movement may actually be upwards and so the best place to 'fly' may be at the top of the wind window where you may have the opportunity to 'ride the thermal' just like the seagulls do.... Circle around and 'sense the pull'. The critical thing is to keep the sail 'fully inflated' at all times.

The SUL frames in the REV I kites flex too much IMHO and I would usually use a standard centre with Ultra Light ends and verticals. I look forward to trying the Race Rods in the Rev I. Weight and 'gravity' may also assist so I have an open mind.

Felix