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NYM vs B-Series ?


Nigel GF
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Different panel layout. Comes in full sail, one-, two-, and three-vent. The venting on the NYM is such that the one-vent falls somewhere between the full-sail and midvent B-series, the two-vent falls between the mid and full-vent B-series, and the three-vent falls between the full-vent and extra-vent B-series. Most say the panel layout and venting on this design make it feel smoother. I agree. The factory framing for this series is, if I recall correctly, the green race rods.

I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences. I have the full-sail, and am seriously considering completing the set. I like it.

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The NYM is Revolutions most advanced model and has a lot of detail features that are not found on the B-Series and were previously only available on the custom B-PRO model, such as wrapped and sewn leading edge ends which eliminate fraying, detailed stitching on the trailing edge for smoother control and flight and a couple other special details. The NYM is the closest thing you can get to a B-PRO. It is my favorite model. These details take quite a bit more work to do which is why the NYM carries a higher price tag.

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Just to add to the above and clarify...

The NYM is the latest/greatest produced by the Rev factory (some may say the B is the best factory but that's a different debate), whereas the Pro is the top of the line and hand made by Bazzer Poulter.

As Kent alluded to, there is a lot of things that go into a Rev that make for a more naturally refined experience which may or may not be worth the money depending on what you want from a kite, the level you plan to fly at, your style of flying, how much you want to push the limits, etc.

Like all revs in the line up, they all fly pretty decently (yes people, that failure to do something is probably your fault .... lol) but there are subtle differences that do make a difference to characteristics and performance.

One thing I will mention about the NYM sails that I have spent time on (two different ones) is that there is a constant vibration coming down the lines from the sail despite not hearing any trailing edge flutter and I could not tune it out. On one of the sails it was almost exclusively on the right hand side and only subtly there on the left. I have spoken with other who have also experienced this (some sold the kites because it was not something they could live with) and others (very experienced pilots) who have not experienced this at all ... so your experience may vary.

Despite that oddity the kite does still fly and I was able to adapt and make it do whatever I needed to do with it. Granted, I was not pushing the limits since none of the NYM that I flew belonged to me, but it was functional in what I needed to do.

For me, the 3-vent punches the heart out of the engine with the location of the inner vent (personal preference) and the vibration are too big of an issue for me and I prefer the quality and natural precision of the Pro series.

Will the Pro, NYM, etc make you fly better .... absolutely not ... but once you know how to fly properly, then the details start becoming relevant.

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@ kwmf -- is the vibration on the venteds only? I have a standard sail that I have flown 3 or 4 times in different conditions, and haven't noticed any vibration. I was thinking of buying all three vented NYM's, but I would find a constant vibration quite annoying. I have flown the single vent once for a few minutes in about 12 mph and didn't notice any vibration from that one either. I would love to know the cause of the vibration, because if it is simply caused by improper tensioning, it would be a desirable quality.

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Very interesting for sure, I have flown the NYM for a while now (got one of the proto's from Ben before they were released). I have all four models and have put extensive time on all of them and have never noticed any vibrations at all. I do tend to fly quite aggressively so maybe that has something to do with it...... Have you talked to Rev about this? We have sold many NYM's and nobody else has ever mentioned anything like that.

p.s. Just to add, I know you are a very talented pilot and know what you are doing, I want to be clear that I am not questioning your ability or skill, just very curious about what you have discovered.

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Absolutely Kent, no offense taken

Mark (Air-4-ce) has not had this with his team NYM sails when I last spoke to him about it and I know others have also been fine. I have seen mentions of it before and the 2 sails that I tried out at WSIKF both suffered this problem. One of the sails only suffered this almost only on the right hand side.

I looked it over, made sure everything was setup and tensioned right and even got a second and third opinion with no luck. I stood under the kite while someone else flew so that I could look at the filled up sail in motion (the vibration doesn't exist while stationary) and there was no trailing edge flutter at all.

From what I saw on those sails my assumption is that there is probably some excessive slack that can creep into the sail during sewing that only becomes apparent once the sail is loaded and assumes it's wind filled shape. I am not sure if frame choice has any impact on this or not as I only flew with the frame that was in there when I got handle time. Some slippage in panel layout during assembly could also explain why you can get a different feel left vs right as well. This would only become apparent in flight and would not be visible during assembly.

Again, that is just my assumption based on my limited hands on time in combination with the experiences I have heard from others. Not everyone experiences it and I suspect many don't know or don't care about the sensation - those who's sails I tried either didn't realize it was odd or didn't care about it since the kite flew fine for them.

I fly Pro sails so I know every sail is the same as every other sail. If the way the 3-vent loads doesn't bother you and the potential vibration isn't an issue for you then the NYM is a competent sail and by all means one should feel free to go right ahead and purchase it safe in the knowledge that we'll all still fly with you and you'll do just fine in team flying and we'll all have fun.

I'm certainly a believer that Rev should put out different sails for different preferences. We already have the B/Pro, Polo, NYM and now the Diablo sails that will all load differently and have different flight characteristics (load, rotational speed, tracking, etc). I personally would love the see Bazzer and JB given freedom to improve the Pro (there are definitely some refinement possibilities) as well as develop something above Xtra and below standard in the 1.5 platform.

In the end you should fly the sail that makes you happy depending on whether your priorities are aesthetic or performance based ... we're all going to get together and have fun regardless :)

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@makatakam

Seems to be hit an miss from what I've seen (see my response to Kent above). The reason I got on the handles at WSIKF was because I wanted to verify what I had heard with my own experiences and not take the word of others.

I couldn't tune it out and in one instance it was almost exclusively on the right side of the sail. We were on the beach so I wasn't able to strip the frame and do left/right comparatives.

I know I flew the 3-vent when the vibration was on the right hand side, and if memory is correct the other sail I flew was a 2-vent model. I know I did not fly the standard or 1-vent model at all.

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@kwmf

Hmmmm... very interesting. Now my curiosity is piqued. I would love to investigate the cause of the phenomenon, and of course find a solution. I would like to believe that if I can't solve the mystery, then no one can. One more incentive for me to show up at WSIKF next year. Or maybe I'll just complete my set on the chance I'll get one that does it.

Did the kite in which the vibration was dominant on the right side, behave strangely, as a non-symmetrical sail would? Or as one would if the lines were unequal? I have noticed that advanced pilots tend to automatically adjust their inputs when one line is longer/shorter than the others.

One possibility for the vibration that comes to mind immediately is from my RC Glider flying days, and that is laminar, as opposed to turbulent air flow over an airfoil. (google: turbulator spar) If the sail is sewn too well it may induce laminar air flow over the wing and create a high frequency flutter (read: vibration). Laminar airflow is reduced or eliminated by using a "turbulator spar" which consists of a raised linear surface running nearly the entire length of the wing perpendicular to direction of airflow.

At any rate, you have my attention.

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Hi Mark

The kite flew evenly and without any asymmetric tendencies, with the exception of that pulsing coming down the lines. While I am capable of adjusting for a fair difference if something is out, I never felt like I was compensating for anything and the kite tracked as straight as any other.

I have a decent understanding of what is happening on a Rev sail, but I suspect you are far more knowledgeable than me on the science of aerodynamics so it would certainly be interesting for someone like you to take a look at this ... even if only for curiosity sake. The trailing edge was definitely not fluttering and the origin was in the sail itself as opposed to the edge. I did notice one or two odd creases that don't exist on the B/Pro sails but nothing was rapidly moving in flight that pointed to an obvious answer.

It was curious to me, which is why I got additional opinions to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

I didn't spend hours on it because I don't plan on owning a NYM, but if you get your hands on one and figure it out I'd certainly like to hear about it.

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Two other possibilities that may cause a vibration are:

A line, either bridle or flying or bungee stretched at the correct tension like a guitar string or rubber band, similar to how your lines begin humming in strong winds that makes the sail itself act as a sounding board. Google: wind harp.

A small portion of sail panel edges that are not sewn together or otherwise attached to each other completely, that the wind activates by blowing onto the edge, like the reed used in some brass and woodwind musical instruments.

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Measure out the bridle and verify that the each right leg is the exact same length as the reciprocal left leg.

I did have an instance some 20 years back where one side of the bridle was flipped, meaning the top was connected to the bottom and bottom was connected to the top.

Hi, John. I don't think that a flipped bridle would have this effect, although I could be wrong. So that's another variable for me to investigate. I believe the actual cause may be the amount of tension in the bridle and sail creating a harmonic resonance which is amplified by the surface of the sail acting as a sound board. I will try to induce this by making minor changes to the span of the upright bridle leg between the upper and lower attachment points. Obviously, the best kite to try this on would be the NYM, and that is where I plan to start. I will probably not do much about it this season, though, since it's getting cooler than what I'm comfortable in when flying.

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