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CUSTOM SAILS FOR REV 1.5 SLE?


stryker2

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Of course, I'm not telling you not to make that "special Rev" for your own collection...

But certainly, it's appropriate to discourage people from instructing others how to make their own on this web site. ;)

oops!

Thanks John for good house keeping. :)

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As for the custom sails, I realize no one has posted here in awhile, but someone might benefit anyway.

I'm pretty sure Peter Betancourt was during custom Rev sails, but I don't know how much $ he charges,anyone could check at: Peter Betancourt sport Kites if they are interested.

Rick

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Is this guy just selling them by going through Revolution, or is he making these sails?

I don't know for sure, but I know he's been around for a very long time and puts out some very detailed work. On his page under the custom Revolutions, (kinda makes me think he's got permission) the black Rev with the iQuad looking dudes is cool. All of thos sails are pretty kick hiney.

Peter was making very high end kites back before I started flying. He let my father fly his kite in 1 mph wind and thats what got my family into kiting in the first place.

Dean

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They don't have the rev logo on, so I would assume they are not rev sanctioned or indeed rev royalty paid. Some would not buy them as a result, others would feel less uncomfortable about it. But, without moralising, we should be sensitive that this is a manufacturer's website.......

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Never mind... I just Googled him.

I've seen some of these kites before. The reason he's able to make these is because his designs do not match any of the standard rev designs. If for example the kites had the same panel layout as the Rev 1.5, then it would be a problem.

The revs that we were initially talking about on this thread were custom color revs. (meaning normal panal layouts with different colors)

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So what I'm reading is that Mr. Betancourt doesn't work with Revolution Kites? Hmmm, with his ability in sail design and workmanship I guess maybe I assumed he'd be involved with the Masterpiece group.

I wonder why?

Dean :ani_punk:

P.S. I hope no one bashes this guy wether he's with Revolution or not. We're posting on someone who has been involved with kiting and producing top of the line kites for longer than most of us on this forum have been kiting. Next to the original MEFM by Ray Bordelon the AirMaster series is spot on. Dual line but top of the line with no other compitition.

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Personally, I would love to own one of his kites, or even to get a chance to fly one. I think he should be making Revolution Masterpiece kites. My whole concern in the beginning was if he was making phony rev 1.5's or something. At the time, I was unaware of the kites that this guy was making. ;)

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No intention to knock his work either. Clearly it is of the very highest quality. And he may be working with Rev sanction for all I know.

But I am sure he would be dis-chuffed if I turned up on his site saying how good some other designer's kites were, Rev may feel a little sensitive about his kit being bigged up here.

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No knocking takin. I'm overly defensive. As I have read and now understand a true Rev custom will have Revolution somewhere on the sail. Peter's do not have the signiture. Beautiful sails but not Rev (sponsered. (cause I had the right word on the tip of my tongue but got tired of trying to pick it) If Peter IS still making Rev Customs I hope he is working through Revolution Kites so us loyal kiters can feel good about what we fly.

Dean :ani_punk:

Sorry about my urinated attitude yesterday, no excuses. My crap has no place on this forum and I apoligize. (how ever you spell it.)

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I've seen some of these kites before. The reason he's able to make these is because his designs do not match any of the standard rev designs. If for example the kites had the same panel layout as the Rev 1.5, then it would be a problem.

Um, no. I don't know whether or not Peter has an arrangement with Revolution Enterprises, but if he doesn't, he's in clear violation of their patent. The patent makes no mention of the sail panel design, but instead concentrates on the shape of the sail (double V with the center of the kite having less area than the outer sides), the venting at the LE, the bridle, and the shape of the handle.

Of course, lots of people are in violation of the patent, myself included. Some of us have implicit permission from Revolution, some have explicit permission. But it has long seemed that one of the key differentiators is whether you're building a knock-off for personal use...or for personal gain.

(I should also point out that I've known Peter since the early 90s and used to fly his Air Master kites quite frequently, though I never owned any of them)

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...clear violation of their patent....

Actually, I take that back. The patent was granted in 1990 so, as far as I know, it would have expired last year! While one can argue that it'd be uncool to sell products based on the Hadzicki design, I'm not sure they'd have any recourse at this point.

As Watty implied, the sail graphic design could probably be copyrighted (and some of the panel layouts might theoretically be patentable based on the alleged improvements offered through stretching) but I've never seen any evidence of that.

Ben or Lolly might have further insight on this

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In looking at the 17 year life I guess you are assuming that no Madrid application was made following the US application and there were no applications in other countries. IIRC the US Patent does refer to foreign filings too. You may also find a second patent granted in June 1992 which is relevant ;)

It may not be quite as clear cut as 17 years from 1990 ;)

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It may not be quite as clear cut as 17 years from 1990 ;)

I'm very well aware that IANAL...after all, I live with one, and don't envy his job at all.

<grin>

That's pretty much why I tried to pass it off to Ben and Lolly, though I imagine Ben is rather preoccupied right now. <sigh>

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That's pretty much why I tried to pass it off to Ben and Lolly, though I imagine Ben is rather preoccupied right now. <sigh>
A wise move, and I suspect he is. I just didn't want anyone to think JH's patent is now a free-for-all.

BTW did you know the second patent also includes an inflatable wing and a flapping wing version of the rev kite - now there's a thought. If you think a rev II is twitchy, can you imagine what one that flaps as well as twists would be like!!!!!!!!

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BTW did you know the second patent also includes an inflatable wing and a flapping wing version of the rev kite - now there's a thought.

Yeah, I was aware of the ornithoptic concept as well as the inflated version, though neither ever made much sense to me.

I do recall that around the same time that the '92 patent was filed, though, there was at least one commercially available dual-skin dual-line delta which employeed a cambered back skin and vents in the front skin so when the kite was in the air, the two sides of the wing would inflate into an airfoil shape... I can't recall who built it, though.

If you think a rev II is twitchy, can you imagine what one that flaps as well as twists would be like!!!!!!!!

As some of the folks around here who know me can tell you, I don't think a rev II is twitchy... I actually tune mine to be much more responsive than factory kites. My idea of _still_ not twitchy is when I fly a bridleless II on 6m lines/17" handles in a decent wind!

But I'm weird like that.

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Yeah, I was aware of the ornithoptic concept as well as the inflated version, though neither ever made much sense to me.

I do recall that around the same time that the '92 patent was filed, though, there was at least one commercially available dual-skin dual-line delta which employeed a cambered back skin and vents in the front skin so when the kite was in the air, the two sides of the wing would inflate into an airfoil shape... I can't recall who built it, though.

Was it Carl Crowell's Accelerator?

th_accelerator.jpg

clickable

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Was it Carl Crowell's Accelerator?

Wow. Haven't seen one of those in roughly forever. Yeah, that's the kite I was thinking of. I remember seeing one flown at the Outer Banks Stunt Kite Championship in 1991 (1992?), and they had them for sale at Kitty Hawk Kites.

Having seen that, I'm also now reminded of another kite that used the same technique: Bob Childs' WhangDoodle, which was a follow-up to the Jabberwocky....

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[threadjack]I've got a WhangDoodle, a very cool Old Skool kite with quite a few innovations.

This pic is from the front and the panels that look light grey are the two layers of white Carrington ripstop in the inflated cells.

th_b949e3fe.jpg

Here is the WhangDoodle in a Fade, showing the collapsed cells:

th_eabfe656.jpg

[/threadjack], though the frame is The Advantage-3 spars, so it has a bit of relevance on a Rev forum. ;)

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