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I Cut My 80 Foot Lines Tonight


hewlejr

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Yep. Finally got fed up. The wind here is extremely variable in speed and direction. It will be dead calm for 10 minutes and then in the next 10 minutes it will be 10 to 15 knots and +/- 45 degrees off in bearing. I just got sick and tired of having great flight one second only to lose pressure and watch my Rev stall and plummet. And then the 160 foot round trip to set the kite back up and wait for the wind to return. So tonight I bit the bullet and cut my lines to make a set of 40 foot lines. They'll be lighter and I won't have to hoof it as far to set the kite back up every time the wind gives up. By sundown, I was still struggling with transferring sleeving onto the newly cut line ends. My wire that I was using to thread the line through the sleeving was WAY too thick and I ended up destroying a length of sleeving. Guess I need to get some thinner guage wire and a spool of fresh sleeving.

And while I'm ranting, 11" handles are worthless! After reading several posts, I got it into my head to make a set of pigtails for my upper leaders. Geeze did that backfire. It was nearly impossible to get the kite into the air, and when I did, I felt like I needed to twirl the handles like batons just to get any lift at all.

I'm just so discouraged. Most of the time, I'm really hard on myself and I chalk everything up to user error, but inland flying is clearly very challenging.

Any of you inland flyers have any pointers? On the bright side, learning to sail boats here has resulted in podium finishes every time I sail competitively in open water. Surely kite flying in such a challenging environment will result in the same level of skill honing.

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Challenging winds are horribly discouraging.

80 feet makes 30 and 50 really easy and gives more options. Just for next time.

If you measure your handles around the curve, are they 11 or 13. If you just measured tip to tip, that isn't how they are graded.

Longer leaders on top (of handles) square your sail to the wind. This means that the largest amount of sail can catch the wind. However. It requires an input to get going. A small thumbs back and a short, sharp pull on the lines produces forward drive drive. A quick thumbs forward stops it.

I fly inland and also around building. Wind shifts of 180 degrees and just completely dropping out are the norm. I fly on a lighter frame, 2 wrap outlets with a Black Race centre on 30 feet of line. It's a small window but I'm only on the ground when I want. Learning to regain ground is a skill. When the wind is light you back up. When it blows you walk forward.

Light wind is challenging. Having to set up for variable conditions is very challenging too. You use your whole body to pump air into your kite then glide out.

Practice practice practice. There's no real cute other than that.

40 foot lines will feel greatly different than 80. Working them in variable conditions will be easier than 80 for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Too many fliers (experienced too) expect the kite to do all the work for them! They want to just stand there, flatfooted, and have the sail fly. Sorry - ain't happening! You have to learn to move back and forth, recycling your ground. Backing up to drive it up, walking forward as you turn it over and controlling the fall. It becomes a rhythm.

I know EXACTLY how you feel about smooth vs choppy winds! I fly regularly in the Portland, OR area and very seldom do we have anything that remotely resembles smooth. Luckily the coast is only a couple hour drive from me (2), and I make that drive as often as possible! That said - you will become a better pilot if you CAN fly in those bad conditions!! Like you said - anyone can fly in perfect smooth winds. It's more - can you still fly in the challenging conditions?? Short lines help in chasing those wind switches around. But be prepared for everything to happen - MUCH quicker!! Short lines = a small window! Making them up - be sure to equalize the 4 lines in the set. Neutral is your friend!

Hard to launch with longer pigtails? Did you preload the sail before launch by stepping back and getting the sail full? Have you added a step back to your launch routine? Again - switching things is a change - did you do anything to adapt? Are they exactly the same length? Are the knots exactly spaced apart? See other thread on my opinion.

Yes it is challenging, but so rewarding when you get it! You didn't just get in that sailboat and automatically figure it out - now did you? You learned the skills needed to make it go fast - point taken?

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Thanks for all of the feedback and advice!

I do move my body during flight. I learned that early on when I ran out of field.*sheepish grin* When I get a good gust, I hustle to regain lost ground. When I launch and even when I need to stop a descent, I take a long step back to load the sails. Now the inverting and walking forward to prevent a stall in light wind is something that I really need to work on. In fact, I am not at all comfortable flying with the leading edge down (that is an instant crash for me.)

I am waiting for my sleeving to be delivered. And I will definitely equalize my new lines. I will probably spend an hour or two getting it "perfect." I'm a bit meticulous about these things. Kind of off of the subject, but one of the LPG lines in the set that came with my Rev was 1/2" longer than the others. And this was after less than 10 minutes of air time in mild wind. I was surprised because I had heard that LPG lines were quality, pre-stretched lines. I guess every manufacturer has product that slips past quality control. No big deal. Adding another overhand knot to the loop of the longer line brought it dead even with the other lines. The kite flew so much better after that.

I tied my longer pigtails perfectly evenly and left and right are identical. But I went with 3/4" spacing of the knots over what ended up being 10" length. I am going to take the pitch down to 1/2" or less.

I do love a good challenge. Now if only I could figure out a way to fly at night when the wife and kids are in bed so I won't feel guilty for stealing time from them.*grin*

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Learning to fly "inverted" or upside down, means learning to "ride your brakes"! Instead of letting gravity pull the kite down out of the sky, learn to feather it down, keeping it full of air as you go. It means really how to use those handles to do this. Learning how much is just enough brake to control that downward motion and turn it from falling to flying!

To get used to inverted flight try this - Put the kite upside down on the ground. Point your thumbs forward towards the kite and back up. Try to keep the kite still, not moving left, right or trying to flip over. Try to feel the small corrections needed to maintain that control. If you feel like it is being lost, step forward to land the kite back on the ground leading edge down again. Rinse, repeat. As you gain control at lower altitude, move it up some. As you get even more control keep pushing that bar higher, until you have good control at any height. Then add it to your regular flight path.

3/4" is good, unless you are not satisfied and want smaller. Some go with 1" too, it's all personal preference. Nice thing about Revs - there is very little "right or wrong" about how you setup your handles. Yes there are suggestions, but they aren't cast in stone. You just experiment until you find a combo of things that work for you.

The important thing is keep trying!! Nothing replaces one thing - Time On The Lines!! The more often you can put the handles in your hands, the better you understand the kite - and how you interact with it.

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stroke survivor, thanks again! That is a great practical exercise. It never occurred to me to start from the ground and work my way up.*laugh* I guess I am just so locked into the idea of having the leading edge up when the kite is on the ground. One of the very first moves I learned was how to "fix" it when my kite ended up on the ground with the leading edge down. My plan (admittedly an awful one) was to take the kite to the top of the window, point her nose down and try to maintain control in inverted flight. Thank goodness you suggested your approach before I decided to tackle inverted flight.*grin* I feel pretty stupid, but relieved at the same time knowing that I can begin to practice this skill without jeopardizing my kite.

One of the problems I was having was that my top leaders where getting tangled with my lower lines. I also thing it would be nice to have a finer degree of adjustment available as I feel things out. I am also thinking about implementing a miniaturized poldo tackle to serve as the top leader. That would give an infinite degree of adjustability.

Fly to train. Don't train to fly, right?

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It's all good in the hood!! Learning inverted this way does 2 things - teaches you the control, plus (and this is sneaky) teaches you to hover! Can you hold it in one place? Still? Not moving? That's an inverted hover! As you move along the learning curve, hovering is something you will do all the time. Learning to do it inverted right off the bat makes all the other positions easy!

Personally almost never had tops tangle in bottom lines, but I do fly way out on the ends too. So it's a non-issue here! Again - no right or wrong - just try and figure out what works for you. Something cool - share it!! But it does sound like you are overdoing your hand movements, by your description. Remember - SMALL movements first! See how little it takes to do something. Remember the sailing? Small adjustments pay off big! (PS: I grew up in Rhode Island and sailed as a kid)! Sheet too tight to the wind and lose ground? HeeHee!

You've got discipline, you'll learn this too! Stick with it!!

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Skip the poldo tackle. Once you have another 10 hours of flying time under your belt, that's the first thing you'll probably get rid of. Keep it simple; the more clutter you put in the set-up, the more can go wrong and tangle or snag other components.

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I could not get the kite off of the ground in 5 to 10 mph winds. I was practically running backwards in my launch attempts too. Is there a lighter kite or frame that would help?

Couldn't say; you haven't told us what you're flying. Moving the attachment points of the top lines two or three knots closer to the handle should get you up in those winds unless your lines are attached to a brick.

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8-10 mph winds and the kite should jump off the ground no problem. Something must be set up wrong. A picture is worth a thousand words.

General rule of thumb on kite settings: pulling the top of the kite closer to you will make the kite fly better in lighter winds by giving it more forward drive. pulling the bottom of the kite closer to you makes the kite more controllable and allows the sail to catch more wind but with less forward drive. Again, this is very general.

If the kite is not climbing, chances are that you are holding the handles too flat or parallel to your body. For forward flight and lift, you need to have the tops of the handles pointed towards your body and the bottom of the handles pointed towards the kite. Many people struggle with this when they first start flying Rev's. To launch, you need to snap the top of the handles backwards towards your body while letting the bottoms out and HOLD them in that position until the kite climbs up to zenith. Do NOT snap the handles back and then move your wrists back to the neutral up and down position or the kite will snap up about three feet, stall, and then fall back to the ground.

Also, make sure your hands are moved up to the upper most top of the foam grips (I fly with my thumb and first finger above the foam grip on the steel rod). When first learning, many people grab the foam grips in the middle which seems natural and correct, but is not going to allow you to get full forward flight. The foam almost seems to be in the wrong position on the handles when you first start but after you learn the control of the kite you discover it is actually right where you need it.

Don't just yank the handles straight backwards when launching. A lot of people who started flying power kites will try this same technique with the Rev and although it works for some power kites, it will not work for the Rev. You need to snap ONLY the top lines for launch. Putting any pressure on the bottoms during launch will just cause the kite to stall and fall back to the ground if it gets any lift at all.

Lastly, if the kite launches in an arc or spins and then crashes onto the ground.....it is because you told it to. :) Rev's are exceptionally responsive to any type of input and will only fly the way you tell it to fly. Only very small snap inputs are needed for proper control and flight, if you pull one hand a little more than the other, the kite will arc gracefully in that direction until it hits leading edge down on the ground. Most new pilots will do this nearly every first couple of launches. Don't get discouraged, if it is pulling to the right, it is because you are pulling more on the right line, ease up on that one during launch or pull a little more with the left to correct it. Keep at it, eventually you will start to figure the hand/eye cordination out and it will start to become fun.

One last thing that nearly every new pilot does: Don't give a death grip on the handles. In order to have any type of control, you MUST LOOSEN YOUR GRIP. All of your control is in flicks of the wrist. If you have a death grip on the handles, you can't move your wrist therefore will not be able to control the kite. Relax your hands, use graceful snappy inputs on the handles, flicking to give minor corrections in flight instead of yanking, pulling, or flailing your arms about.

I am sorry that you are having difficulty, learning can be very frustrating when you are by yourself but please stick with it, once you start to figure out the basics it opens an entire world of fun and enjoyment that will make it all worth it.

Hope that helps.

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Couldn't say; you haven't told us what you're flying. Moving the attachment points of the top lines two or three knots closer to the handle should get you up in those winds unless your lines are attached to brick.

I am flying an EXP. And I did have my upper lines out about an inch further than my lowers.

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8-10 mph winds and the kite should jump off the ground no problem. Something must be set up wrong. A picture is worth a thousand words.

General rule of thumb on kite settings: pulling the top of the kite closer to you will make the kite fly better in lighter winds by giving it more forward drive. pulling the bottom of the kite closer to you makes the kite more controllable and allows the sail to catch more wind but with less forward drive. Again, this is very general.

If the kite is not climbing, chances are that you are holding the handles too flat or parallel to your body. For forward flight and lift, you need to have the tops of the handles pointed towards your body and the bottom of the handles pointed towards the kite. Many people struggle with this when they first start flying Rev's. To launch, you need to snap the top of the handles backwards towards your body while letting the bottoms out and HOLD them in that position until the kite climbs up to zenith. Do NOT snap the handles back and then move your wrists back to the neutral up and down position or the kite will snap up about three feet, stall, and then fall back to the ground.

Also, make sure your hands are moved up to the upper most top of the foam grips (I fly with my thumb and first finger above the foam grip on the steel rod). When first learning, many people grab the foam grips in the middle which seems natural and correct, but is not going to allow you to get full forward flight. The foam almost seems to be in the wrong position on the handles when you first start but after you learn the control of the kite you discover it is actually right where you need it.

Don't just yank the handles straight backwards when launching. A lot of people who started flying power kites will try this same technique with the Rev and although it works for some power kites, it will not work for the Rev. You need to snap ONLY the top lines for launch. Putting any pressure on the bottoms during launch will just cause the kite to stall and fall back to the ground if it gets any lift at all.

Lastly, if the kite launches in an arc or spins and then crashes onto the ground.....it is because you told it to. :) Rev's are exceptionally responsive to any type of input and will only fly the way you tell it to fly. Only very small snap inputs are needed for proper control and flight, if you pull one hand a little more than the other, the kite will arc gracefully in that direction until it hits leading edge down on the ground. Most new pilots will do this nearly every first couple of launches. Don't get discouraged, if it is pulling to the right, it is because you are pulling more on the right line, ease up on that one during launch or pull a little more with the left to correct it. Keep at it, eventually you will start to figure the hand/eye cordination out and it will start to become fun.

One last thing that nearly every new pilot does: Don't give a death grip on the handles. In order to have any type of control, you MUST LOOSEN YOUR GRIP. All of your control is in flicks of the wrist. If you have a death grip on the handles, you can't move your wrist therefore will not be able to control the kite. Relax your hands, use graceful snappy inputs on the handles, flicking to give minor corrections in flight instead of yanking, pulling, or flailing your arms about.

I am sorry that you are having difficulty, learning can be very frustrating when you are by yourself but please stick with it, once you start to figure out the basics it opens an entire world of fun and enjoyment that will make it all worth it.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response! I definitely need more practice with these fudamentals. I am going to get back out there.

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Yep, it's difficult to learn on your own, especially in crappy inland wind. Stay with it; the rewards outnumber the frustrations. Look for an experienced pilot to give you a hand. Travel to a kite festival. Find the nearest kite shop.

I started on my own also, and it is truly annoying at first, but each time you try you get better, until eventually it just becomes natural. Choose the wind you fly in carefully. Avoid wind below 5mph, above 10mph, gusty and/or variable direction. The only thing you'll learn in those conditions is how hard it is to learn in those conditions. Having the wind be an ally early in the game will help tremendously. Be selective at first; once you have basic control down pat, you may even find crap wind an enjoyable challenge! For now, just play it safe.

Also the shorter lines are a bit more difficult at first because everything happens so much faster, and the window is much smaller. Flying near the edges makes it easier to just drop out of the sky. Try to fly in the center half of the window, | |XX|XX| | until you have the basics figured out.

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Yep, it's difficult to learn on your own, especially in crappy inland wind. Stay with it; the rewards outnumber the frustrations. Look for an experienced pilot to give you a hand. Travel to a kite festival. Find the nearest kite shop.

I started on my own also, and it is truly annoying at first, but each time you try you get better, until eventually it just becomes natural. Choose the wind you fly in carefully. Avoid wind below 5mph, above 10mph, gusty and/or variable direction. The only thing you'll learn in those conditions is how hard it is to learn in those conditions. Having the wind be an ally early in the game will help tremendously. Be selective at first; once you have basic control down pat, you may even find crap wind an enjoyable challenge! For now, just play it safe.

Also the shorter lines are a bit more difficult at first because everything happens so much faster, and the window is much smaller. Flying near the edges makes it easier to just drop out of the sky. Try to fly in the center half of the window, | |XX|XX| | until you have the basics figured out.

Again, great advice. These are things that I forget in the field in the excitement of the moment. Thank you. I can't wait for the next windy day. Unfortunately, the sommer doldrums have set in. :(

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