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Nigel GF

Line adjustment

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Hi,I have just got a set of 13" snag less handles to use on my new Rev B series full sail I have just bought,can somebody explain the adjustment knots top and bottom, and by moving the lines on the knots back and forth what affect it will have on flying the kite.

Thanks

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Hi Nigel,

It can be rather confusing when starting out. The phrase usually used for using the knots on the "leaders" of the handles is "tuning".

There are many posts on the subject such as: What is the purpose of long leader with knots on the handles.

Do a search on these forums for "tuning" or "brakes" and you will find lots of helpful information.

Over on kitelife there are many useful video tutorials on Revolution flying, even more if you are a subscriber. There is one that covers tuning.

Ask if you have trouble.

Cheers

Stephen

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Hi,I have just got a set of 13" snag less handles to use on my new Rev B series full sail I have just bought,can somebody explain the adjustment knots top and bottom, and by moving the lines on the knots back and forth what affect it will have on flying the kite.

Thanks

Hi Nigel,

Here is a link to get you started, the set up shown is very near the same as I and several of my friends use !

http://www.revkites.com/forum/topic/4409-my-leaders-your-thoughts/

What you are looking for is differential in length between the top and bottom connections!

Start with your brake lines on the knot nearest the handles, ( it,s the only one I ever use )

Connect the power line to the knot furthest form the handle,

Try to take off ( I bet you won,t ),

Move back a knot and try again, repeat until you can take off then go one more knot,

This should be your basic datum, remember it, mark it if you can.

From your datum try more or less knots, one at a time, to get comfortable and eventually

you will settle on one particular knot that you like, if it is windy back off one knot, if it is calm add a knot.

When I am setting up I always connect to my datum point and only add one more knot of drive when

team flying.

Have a look at JB,s handles on the tutorial videos, then look at other peoples videos and you will see

what is meant by differential, and remember everybody is different !

Bill

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Most of us just use the top line connection to adjust. Attach the bottoms at whatever knot is on them, I prefer the outermost knot on my handles. Then as oapbillf said, hook the tops outermost and try launching. Adjust in towards you as needed to launch, but with a little difficulty. May have to add a step backwards in with the thumbs back move. The point of this setup is to create a "neutral", you need to "tell" it where to go, not just have it fly off without your input. It should be a little difficult at first, but with practice feel "normal" to you.

Moving the top lines in or out, let's you adjust for more or less wind. Usually in for less wind, out for higher wind, but not everyone agrees on that - YMMV!

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Most of us just use the top line connection to adjust. Attach the bottoms at whatever knot is on them, I prefer the outermost knot on my handles. Then as oapbillf said, hook the tops outermost and try launching. Adjust in towards you as needed to launch, but with a little difficulty. May have to add a step backwards in with the thumbs back move. The point of this setup is to create a "neutral", you need to "tell" it where to go, not just have it fly off without your input. It should be a little difficult at first, but with practice feel "normal" to you.

Moving the top lines in or out, let's you adjust for more or less wind. Usually in for less wind, out for higher wind, but not everyone agrees on that - YMMV!

And in minimal wind (0-2mph) you move them out to square the sail to the wind so you can keep the sail loaded without a lot of body movement. Once you've been flying a while it will become instictive; you'll know which knot to move the lines to even before you launch.

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And in minimal wind (0-2mph) you move them out to square the sail to the wind so you can keep the sail loaded without a lot of body movement. Once you've been flying a while it will become instictive; you'll know which knot to move the lines to even before you launch.

Hang on. I understand moving them in for lighter wind, but I don't understand this bit. When it's really low, you move them back out again?

How does that work?

Jonathan

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Hang on. I understand moving them in for lighter wind, but I don't understand this bit. When it's really low, you move them back out again?

How does that work?

Jonathan

Keeping the sail, top tilted towards you, like this \, lets some wind slide out the bottom. Keeping the sail square to you, like this |, keeps more wind pressure in the sail. No pressure in the sail? Kite drops out of the sky. The more pressure in the sail, the easier it is to keep it airborne. The knots adjust the angle of attack (amount of tilt). In strong wind, you will want to fly with lots of brake so the kite is controlled, and doesn't go shooting off in any direction until you tell it to. That's what Wayne is talking about when he mentions finding the balance point.

I know it just sounds weird, and will not make sense until you have tried various combinations of lines, sails, frames, handle lengths, and adjustment points. Don't worry about it too much, just fly. One day it will just click on for you and you'll see it plainly and understand it. If you fly a lot in low winds, you will feel it sooner.

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With the kite facing left or right you will of course quickly find the buoyancy point if you bring the kite to a halt. Flying a (Revolution) kite is 'all about' holding it stationery in the sky at any point and at any angle in the wind window <grins>

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Sounds contradictory doesn't it? But you get more "wind" to stay in the sail by "squaring up', rather than tilting. The more you fly in light winds and experiment with trying different adjustments, the more sense it will make. ani_idea.gif

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OK. That kind of makes sense. I guess it also means you start flying a bit differently when you've gone for the squared up low wind arrangement.

Plenty of calm days down at the local cricket ground for me to practice this!

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A sail that is "square" to the wind presents the maximum amount of usable sail area. To create drive in low low wind you have to pull back on both handles to compress the sail. Give it some WHUMP.

Practice extending your brake lines (tops). It will feel very heavy but don't give up. Give it sometime. Low wind needs your input.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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As a rule of thumb....

Light wind ... heavy wind .... I don't move more than 1 knot on the top leaders, and that's almost exclusively only for strong winds. Overly strong wind aside, the setup for most efficient and effective use of the air pressure is the same for normal or light wind - this is sheer physics.

If you move more than a single knot either side of your average setup then I would question the setup to begin with

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@kwmf

Do you normally fly with a lot of brake? I am usually one knot short of maximum brake, and move to maximum for very high and very low wind (<3mph). I give it 2 or 3 knots more go when flying with others so I can keep up with their speed and hold an upright hover without having to constantly pump to maintain altitude.

Do you think I may be using too much brake as a standard setting? I find myself flying with at least 2 knots more brake than others. It seems to make the kite feel more "connected" and balanced. Add one knot beyond what my maximum setting is and the kite will not move forward or launch.

I may have to revert to initial factory settings and do some experimentation. I don't know. Maybe what feels good to me is less than good.

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Mark - you could compare your setup to his by going to - "my leaders - your thoughts" and check his setup. There are pix there to see exactly how he sets up. ani_idea.gif

Use too much brake?? Does it work for you? cat_shocked.gif

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Mark - you could compare your setup to his by going to - "my leaders - your thoughts" and check his setup. There are pix there to see exactly how he sets up. ani_idea.gif

Use too much brake?? Does it work for you? cat_shocked.gif

Yes, I have. They are nearly identical. I tend to fly on the bottom knot closest to the handle, and the second or third knot in on the tops. The only differences in his set-up and mine are that I have three or four more knots on top closer to the handle to accommodate flying other (home-made) quads, and 4- to 5-inch disposable wear extensions on both top and bottom leaders that allow me to grab the thicker dacron instead of the flying line for catch and throw and other tricks. The spectra can cut your fingers, especially when they are wet.

The spacing of my knots is a little bit closer than his on top, again to accommodate other kites, so I would say I normally fly about 1.5 to 2 knots more brake. And that is why I'm tempted to re-think what I use. I'm usually 2 knots more brake than others are.

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I have made a number of leaders since that thread, and different handles have different adjustments depending on when they were made. I set my neutral based on flight characteristics not a specific number. Once the neutral has been found, I am at the most efficient setup for my hand and body structure and moving 1 knot either way will account for environmental variables.

This way I can pick up any setup from anyone with any handle, and as long as the top leaders are long enough, I will find my happy neutral based on the handling within a few minutes.

As far as upright hovers go, I prefer to be able to hold the hover without having to constantly pump the kite constantly (assuming there is sufficient wind force) but I do want as much brake as possible for more precise control.

I have never had any trouble maintaining speed (positive or negative) relative to others around me with the exceptions of those who fly too little brake and have their kite running wild all over the sky with little control.

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Ok, a bit more thinking about this and I believe I have solved the problem/difference I have. I have really small hands for a guy, so my neutral position is further towards the top of the handles. More brake allows me to fly with my thumbs on top or near the top of the handles, which also explains why I prefer shorter handles. With the longer handles I give up leverage to the kite and find control more difficult. I have a set of 15", but seldom use them because the shorter ones feel better. I prefer 1-inch diameter grips because of my hand size also, and am considering even thinner for one-handed flying. New snagless 11" handles of my own design are being made for me and I look forward to trying them. Will post results when available, probably in April or May.

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That makes some sense!!

I'm on the other side of the scale and prefer my 14" handles (almost bent as indoor too)! Fits the ergonomics of my hand better (along with thicker foam that rests in my fingers)! Because I don't like my leaders rubbing against my fingers, my setup is adjusted to my keeping my whole hand on the foam, with just my thumbs on top and the grip resting in the crook formed by curling my fingers. I believe it was Paul L. that described it as "holding a baby bird, not strangling a snake!". PS: the flatter bend already gives me a bit more brake in my setup to start!

I also use 13" and 15" (bent flatter too) in different winds. I prefer the longer in light conditions, the shorter in heavy. Just like you, it is a matter of leverage. I find that shorter handles don't overwork the sail in high winds, and longer give me a little more control in light wind. YMMV!!

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And there you go .... variance across the same anatomical structure resulting in different outputs, but with a consistent principle. That principle is what lets one pick up any handle and find neutral and know you only ever need move a single knot.

I've played (at length on each iteration) with different handle bends, foam thicknesses and foam position (among other factors), and each has their pros and cons. Where I feel I have a leg up on most is that I am aware of the differences and what I gain and lose on each variance of the possibilities. From there I can pick which one I feel is the best mix for me.

Truth be told, I'm actually in the process (have been for a few months) of circling back to where I started to revalidate things against the knowledge I believe I have gained through the process.

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