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SUL as my first Rev?


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Hi all,

I've been buried in these forums over the last week in preparation for entering the world of serious kites, but still have a couple of questions.

My small amount of kite experience is a cheap 2 line kite bought in a toy store while on holidays 12 years ago. I've had a great time flying it 5 or 6 times a year when we happen to be at the beach but started wondering if there were better kites out there. That's when I stumbled across Revs.

From what I've read, the basic answer to "Which Rev?", is the one you can afford. So while my budget is still not quite settled, I may be looking at an EXP, SLE, or the slight possibility of a B-series.

My big question is around getting more flying time by heading to the local football ground down the road instead of waiting for the chance to hit the beach. I'm not sure how strong or consistent the winds are here, but certainly a lot lighter than I see at the beach.

So, in a long winded (!) way I arrive at the question - what about an SLE SUL as my first REV to give me the best chance of flying locally? Will it be too fragile given I'll probably keep crashing it into grass and dirt? Will I have problems with the SUL bridle? Will it let me down in stronger winds when I do go to the beach?

Am I better off saving a bit longer for a B-series so the 2 wrap frame serves as my SUL option, maybe with some 50# x 50' lines as well? I presume if I were to expect to only ever have one kite this may be the best option.

Or perhaps stick with an EXP for now and some money in the bank towards the next kite when I'm a bit more experienced.

Of course I could always stick with dual lines and for the price of an EXP get a Prism Quantum and a 4D giving me a good range of winds.

I am so hooked, and I haven't even bought the kite yet. Some guys have a mid life crisis and buy a sports car, looks like my sports car might be a kite!

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated :-)

Thanks

Jonathan

Melbourne, Australia

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Hi Jonathan, This is all good information for you in deciding which Rev to purchase ! What I would like to add is this :- Your wife is backing you all the way so don't forget to take her flying w

First off, a big fat "WELCOME" to you. Always good to see another Aussie picking up a set of handles. OK, last chance to turn away, once the Dark Side has you it's a bit like Hotel California. "You

Oh, yeah. Forgot one thing. Practice in both/all directions. Don't become one-sided.

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Welcome Jonathan. Quad line are quite different from dual line. Dual line is much more moving around for tricking, if that's what you want to get into. Quadline is pretty flexible wind wise. Looking at your weather forecast for the next few days says 15-30 km/h. That's pretty good wind. What are your local conditions usually like? Larger open spaces/ beaches are better, obviously. You have a large bay there so your winds might be better than you think.

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Thanks Tmadz.

I do like the idea of the level of control you can have with a quad. That appeals to me more than a dual line.

I'm about 30-40 minutes away from the bay and you're right - there's often a good wind there. But if possible, it would be really handy to be able to fly at the local football ground since it's only a few minutes walk. However it's surrounded by trees so I'm not sure if it would be suitable at all. Maybe I just should assume I need to drive to the beach to get any decent flying time.

Jonathan

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If you are only 30-40 minutes away from the beach - I say make the trip!!! Get an SLE or "B" full sail and save for a full vent, and you have most wind conditions covered.

Get a "B" with 2 frames and then get a full vent with whatever frame was missing from the original package. That way you end up with 3 frames and 2 sails, ready to take on just about anything!!

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Hold on to your cash for a bit. Put the call out for a second hand first to see what's out there. There are quite a few Rev pilots here in Oz, and some may have a set up just hanging around...

Sorry but I'm just getting up from nightshift and haven't thoroughly read this. Just commenting so I can come back. Check the local "wind rose (spelling). That and SULs are pretty scarce.

I'll be in touch later today, just let me wake up a little...

Edit: nightshift not nightshirt!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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First off, a big fat "WELCOME" to you.ani_victory.gif Always good to see another Aussie picking up a set of handles. ani_yahoo.gif

OK, last chance to turn away, once the Dark Side has you it's a bit like Hotel California. "You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave"...

Grab a coffee, I may go on a bit.

Most pilots get a Standard (full sail) first, then a Vented (fairly windy). Then a Midvent (a bit windy) to fill the gap inbetween.

Just had a quick look at the kite shops here in Oz as postage will be faster, not by much but we've all been there!

There's roughly about $60-$70 between an EXP ready to fly (handles and lines) and a SLE Standard rtf. The SLE will come with an extra leading ldge, the SLE part is the Super Leading Edge, but most pilots dont use it. Most rtf packages come with 80 foot lines which is a great intermediate set. Can also be chopped down to a 30 and 50-ish set. 80 is ok for a footy oval if the trees aren't too thick. 30 I can fly on my front lawn and not step on the street...

A B Series and NYM (New York Minute) is another step up again and to be honest it really is a good thing. Most come rtf AND a second frame!

Crashes look (and sound) far worse than they actually are. I have never snapped a rod by smacking flat into mother earth but on an angle it will. Putting a sail up in too high wind will too.

The more you spend on a sail the better it is but that wont make anything easier, skill will do that.

Skill and practice.

Light wind flying is a learned art, sure an SUL will make it a bit easier BUT good light wind technique will get you lower than a sail will. There are tutorials to help with all sorts of techniques on the "Kitelife" site. JB is a name you will quickly become familiar with.

Beach wind is different to inland wind in that it has constant pressure not up and down so much. A 10 km/h at the beach could be equivalent to about 16km/h inland...

My advice is have a look at the sail YOU LIKE, set your budget to that. You'll have it till its see through and dotted with tape... I would've thought someone was crazy to spend $300+ on a kite but I have 11 Revs now and wouldn' blink at $650+ for a Shook weave or a Masterpiece.

If cost is still a major factor, second hand is a great option. Revs fly even when they are ripped, torn, sewn back up, taped, glued, frayed.... You get the picture. I might have a second hand set up for you cheaper than new if you want to go that way.

Hope this helps. They (we) are a friendly bunch here on the forum. Explore the threads, ask questions. Its all good. PM me if you dont want to ask publically.

Rob.

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Thanks everyone for the helpful responses. Very much appreciated.

I think I'll skip the SUL idea and look to get either a B-series, SLE, or EXP in that order depending on budget. I'll work on the assumption that my best flying will involve a drive to the beach where I can find decent and consistent winds. Once I know what I'm doing then I can figure out whether I can fly at the local footy ground.

My lovely wife has become aware of my new fascination so there's a slight chance of some help towards a kite on Christmas morning. I'll wait and see how that plays out and take things from there.

Again, thanks for all the advice :-)

Jonathan

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Post christmas update:

Since an actual Rev was clearly outside of the Christmas budget my amazing wife gave me some cash towards one. She even folded and stuck some fifties together in the shape of a little Rev! (she invented a single line rev but there weren't enough fifties to make it a quad!)

This of course doesn't rid me of a significant dilemma. I could basically buy an EXP now, or I could wait 6 weeks to my birthday and by then should be in a position to get a B-series instead.

From reading the forums I understand that an EXP will be fine but if I really get into it I will probably want to upgrade to a B-series in the future.

I like the idea of getting an EXP now to satisfy my new kite urge, but given finances I may not be in a position to upgrade for some time, so perhaps holding off and getting a B-series first makes better sense. I'd be tempted to grab a Prism zero G in the meantime to satisfy the new kite cravings.

So here are my new questions:

1. Are the benefits of a B-series only noticeable for someone with highly developed skills or would it also improve a beginner's experience?

2. I understand the B-series is a better light wind option partly because it comes with the 2-wrap frame. Would I get similar light wind performance by adding a 2 wrap from to an EXP in the future. (i.e., does the sail material and lines make a significant difference?).

3. I'm presuming EXP, SLE, and B-series come with different quality lines - does this make much difference? As far as I understand the EXP and SLE seem to come RTF but the local stores I've looked at offer the option to add lines to the B-series without specifying what type of lines they are.

Thanks in advance (and Merry Christmas)

Jonathan

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Hi Jonathan, and welcome.

I started with an EXP, so can't answer your first question.

For light wind performance, there are framing options that are lighter than the 2 wrap frame. Rev has the diamond frame, or you can cut and assemble a frame from SkyShark P90 sticks. I think a lighter frame and pilot skill will make more of a difference in light winds than the difference in sail material between the EXP and B series.

I got my EXP as a RTF package. It came with LPG 90# line, which is good line that many people use. I stil use that line set. My other line sets, purchased later, are also LPG. If you can, check with your local shops what line comes with the RTF packages. Sometimes shops make their own packages, so the most accurate answer would be to ask them. LPG and Skybond are both good line and commonly used in the US. There might be other good line available elsewhere that I'm not familiar with.

While it may sound like I'm trying to convince you to start with an EXP, that is not my intention. I hope you get the info you need to make your own decision. You should get the one YOU want (and like to look at), and when you want it.

Good luck and happy flying.

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Geez, I hit send before I was finished!

Hold out for the B with the 2 frames, lines and handles. It will give you a greater wind range which means for flying.

Starting out, there is no difference between any of the 1.5 kites. You have nothing to compare against. It's the shape that defines the kite. As you get better, you can appreciate the differences. When I first got my SLE I thought my EXP flew better, but that was because I was so familiar with it. Now when I pull the out I can appreciate the subtle differences my B has.

1. A beginner can benefit from a B, it's just you may not appreciate the differences straight away. They are there. If I was to go back I would get a set of Pros but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

2. The B sail is more efficient over the life of it. The extra frame increases versatility. A 2 frame isn't a magic light wind cure but every little bit helps.

3. Usually all Rev packages come with LPG (laser pro gold) lines which are top shelf lines. I know the Briskites offer is LPG.

If you look to overseas suppliers, some have an upgrade option to change one of the frames for a set of Race Rods. If it's possible this is good. I would give up both frame sets just to have Race Rods. The weight of a 2 frame but still handle 3 frame winds, essentially.

Glad to hear the passion is flowing.

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First off BookBoy, your woman sounds like a great catch. Someone who understands your desires and is willing to play along.

I bought an EXP and all of my other kites so far have been bought used in nothing less than very good condition. Most Rev fliers take excellent care of their kites. I will say that I rarely use my EXP now. I save it for inclement weather or as a loaner. I like the B series because of the better sail, better bridle and color options.

I've only been flying Rev's for a year and a half so what I can do with a B series probably hasn't even scratched the surface. Having an alternate frame is extremely important for varying conditions as well as having a backup, but I haven't broken a stick yet.

If you're willing to wait until Bazzer comes back from sabbatical to build you a B-pro or buy one from a dealer, then by all means, but the improvements are more for advanced fliers and long term wear than specifically increased performance that newbies would notice. At least as it's been explained to me.

I think you would be very happy to own a B series and it could save you a few dollars. SparkieRob is right. See if you can network to find a flier or dealer that might let you fly or borrow. Kiter's try to keep everything above board because it's such a small community. Reputations are important.

Good luck and great winds. Post pictures of your baby when you get her.

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Just an FYI, all REV's are packaged with LPG lines from the factory, LPG is the only line that Revolution sells with their kites. Even the EXP comes with them. The thing to be aware of is that Revolution sells REV's packaged in a couple different ways. One is the full package which includes lines, handles and everything you need. The other is the full package without lines, a lot of shops like to order this way because they use their own lines instead of the more expensive REV LPG lines. That is not to say that the shop is using inferior line, they may just as well be supplying LPG lines as well but it can be less expensive for the shop to wind their own lines in house instead of purchasing them from Rev. The shop could also be supplying inferior lines and calling them LPG (very poor business practice but I know of some shops that do this). The third option Rev offers it's dealers is a Kite Only option. This is usually the kite and storage sleeve only. No lines or accessories included. All of Revolution's packages have the full complete package available (with lines) except the B-Series package. Rev only offers this package as a full kit minus the lineset. The reason is that most pilots will have a desirable line length they are wanting, either 120 ft for team flying or 75ft or 50ft for personal flying...or something totally custom. Now it is possible for your local shop to order the B-Series package and have Rev include a lineset with the package, but Rev only does this on special orders.

When purchasing from your kite store, you should always ask what lines are being supplied with the kite and where the lines are from. A Wind Of Change ONLY carries LPG or Shanti lines for our dual or quad line kites, our complete packages come from Revolution with OEM Revolution supplied lines. With some of our other packages (B-Series and NYM) we offer one or the other to our customers depending on what they desire. Although I personally like the Shanti line better, I usually always recommend the LPG line for Rev's when there is a possibility of team flying. This minimizes possible conflicts when it comes to line type and other pilots.

As far as choosing between the EXP now and the B-Series later, keep in mind that an experienced pilot on an EXP would most likely out-fly a inexperienced pilot on a B-Series Pro. :) There isn't anything you can't do on an EXP that you can do on the B-Series. The B-Series just does everything a lot smoother. The biggest difference is that the B-Series comes packaged with two complete framesets, which basically gives you two kites for the price of one. With the 2wrap frame, you get a very nice UL kite that will fly down into the 2-3 mph wind range and with the 3 wrap or Race Frame you can fly in standard winds up to 18-20 mph. Because of that, I would definitely hold out for the B-Series over the EXP.

Hope this helps with your decision.

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Thanks again to everyone for the helpful advice. Although I may well change my mind, I'm currently settled on waiting to my birthday in 6 weeks when my amazing wife is once again happy to contribute to the kite. That should get me to a B series.

I expect I'll spend the next 6 weeks devouring the forums and watching JB's instructional videos. Along with constantly changing my mind between blue/grey and dark blue/light blue/white :-)

Jonathan

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Patience will get you an extra frame -- it's worth the wait. The extra frame will give you a broader range of wind in which you can fly comfortably. In the meantime, you can try to locate the other Rev flyers nearest to you. We're all a friendly bunch, and I'm sure they'll let you fly theirs until yours arrives.

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One thing to remember...if you want your wife/girlfriend to fly with you then NEVER NEVER NEVER have her reset your kite for you if you crash. In fact, when she is learning it is your job to set it all up and then remain at the kite end resetting the kite for her while she learns. :)

Two or three times chasing after your kite while you stand there waiting to fly will teach her that kite flying is NOT what she wants to do. :)

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