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Hey!,... whatever happened to this development path on a Rev that flies indoors and doubles as a delicate SUL for outside?

many have heard about it,

a few have seen it,

I have flown it,

Now I'm ready to apply modifications to one I own personally and practice-up for the Air & Space Museum.

Hopefully this wasn't a one-off-and-done project, or a strange acquisition path where I can only acquire it thru an AKA auction promo

inquiring minds want to know about the Helium status.

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While I do believe the Indoor Rev could use an update (or even split in 2 different directions) .... I think the current one flies decently and is already pretty delicate outdoors.

What I would actually like to see is a TOUGH 1.5 type kite for less than standard winds, not a delicate one. Catch-22 I know, but a delicate outdoor rig has no place in my bag.

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Hi Steven, In my experience the "tough" 1.5 model already exists, you can beat the stitches out of it for a couple of thousands of hours too! Buy the factory stocker with that fat Dacron leading edge and throw in some green race (the travel frame is stronger + cheaper to fix if you break a spar). Ask for some extra leading edge patches to be placed at the folds, if not also included at that center point if you want more durability. That will double the lifespan of your sail, the only remaining wear point is the trailing edge. Failure there is a long way down the quad-line trail.

Upgrade to a Pro and have Bazzer slap all the upgrades on it, or pop for a Eliot Shook Mesh and double the wind range while still getting all the latest developments in construction.

Less than standard wind in my area IS indoor conditions (unlimited ceiling though ~ HA) If we get a steady 10 mph breeze then the public schools would be closed for a week! What is "less than standard" in South Africa?

I want a design for no wind/indoors that flies just like the rest of the kites in my bag. The indoor Revolution kite has too much pilot transition expected, like putting left handed but playing the rest of your golf clubs "righty".

The Zen can fly in zip wind, but many folks don't connect, put the time in necessary to be as one with that wing. There very well may be a significant market for the Helium as a cross-over kite.

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Got to agree with Paul on one of his points - not enough are willing to play with a Zen long enough to realize it's potential! Just because it feels "different" is no reason to discard or disregard it!! I understand the issue - not enough have even flown a Rev 1 to feel the distinct "difference" the big wings have over the smaller 1.5 size! MHO!!

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I would love to try a Helium; it sounds like something I made, only sturdier. Mine has no leading edge mesh, which is quite heavy in spite of having so much open space. Instead, I gave it a "belt-loop", semi-exposed frame leading edge. Slightly higher aspect ratio than a Rev 1.5 model, with nearly the same sail area. Framed in Black Race/P90, minimal connectors and bungee, and an adjustable bridle of 50-lb spectra tied to the sail instead of the end caps.

These are things that Revolution Kites cannot do, unless they only offer the kite to advanced flyers. One newbie crash and it's out to get parts every time. The Helium sounds like they will try to reach a reasonable compromise between light weight, sail area and durability that can still boogie and respond as quickly as a 1.5 platform. The first thing I did with my first, brand-new, store-bought 1.5 SLE, was think: "Ok, all this extra crap has go to go!", and proceeded to chop 3/4 of an ounce off of it before I took it out for its first flight. I am the kind of guy who will chop up a $600.00 kite to make it do what I want, as opposed to complaining and trying to get my money back. Also, there is very much satisfaction in seeing your own modifications perform well.

I am sure that the company has to be concerned with durability and the targeted market for that reason. They must be able to maintain a decent profit margin at wholesale, or there will be no more Revolution Kites.

Paul will probably chime in on all of this, as he has also done quite a bit of experimentation with various modifications.

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I think there are varying definitions of 'tough' in these here parts ... and given the monopoly money we earn out here, I certainly wouldn't agree with some of them.

The indoor needs an update - which direction such an update takes will dictate my interest or not.

A crossover / hybrid would need to be able to take the outdoor condition if it is so intentioned. If it cannot, then label it an indoor only kite and leave it's outdoor flying to those with a far looser definition of tough than most.

The Zen is a fine wing for what it was designed to do .... long line team flying. Throw it onto 50' or 30' lines (my 2 most used lengths) and it's a different animal. For me it's not that I can't fly it, it's that it's not as enjoyable, requires a different mechanic and it's size can be problematic on such short lines.

If you just want to have some fabric in the air then the Zen and others are perfectly acceptable solutions. For me personally, if I have a Rev up I want to be able to perform more than just gliding around.

Just my goals and needs, those with different ones will see it differently. If a kite meets my needs then I will buy it .... if not, I cannot afford idle money sitting in my bag.

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Good points, I agree Steven, none of the Revs are much fun to just glide around, they cry out to be spanked aggressively, dump that air pressure, flail around a bit & snap 'em back to fully powered flight in a heartbeat. Axeling the Zen is timed with a sundial, while a Rev2/B2 can hardly do less than a couple sequential axels in one command. No other kite design can do the throw & catch as easily (or look as nice doing it!)

30 to 50 foot lines is about the size of a Rev2 window. At that size you don't even need the LE venting, just a wrap-around leading edge is sufficient. You could make this kite easily with 9460 bonding tape by 3M as a no-sew project. I'd use a full sail concept, P-90 leading edge and a tapered down spar, probably a 2PT, no bridle and long throw handles to get the kite flat effortlessly. You should be able to throw that format around with abandon, even flying up wind with practice. (Jeff Burka comes to my mind immediately). This size of line set should be pretty impervious to swilling gusts, obstructions like trees or buildings and directional changes by the breeze every few seconds.

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My indoor kite of choice is my outdoor kite of choice up to about 8-10mph: a B2 with race frame and no bridle. Can't recall ever breaking a stick, inside or out. While I'd certainly be curious to try a new sail from Revolution (and would probably buy one!), I already feel like I have the best single solution!

8631453005_32a4de0294_n.jpgJeff with a custom indoor revolution kite by alloyjared, on Flickr

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I've found that 50' is an absolute minimum length for the Zen and use either those or 120's.

I get tired of the "glidey" thing after a short while, so that's my Zen choice time. I like the powered up feel of the Zen over the floaty style you need with just about any 1.5, in light winds. About the only thing come close (for me) is my SUL street setup - SUL, 30' lines, diamond LE, 2 wrap verts.

As for an updated indoor, coming from someone that flies indoor more than most, there would have to be some significant changes to get my attention! I'm pretty happy with the way it is now!!

It all comes down to perceptions of the individual flier, I guess!

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Bump, keeping it foremost in discussion.

I'm keen to see the results of this project, perhaps 40% of all my Revvin' is done in 3km/h or less.

If I was to design something for this it would be a 1.5 SUL Pro or Single Skin. It would use the Diamond frame with optional Magic Sticks. I would use either a 5 point French Bridle or 7 point Revoholic Bridle, but with a pigtail located at the top and bottom of each vert.

Under 3mph attach on the pigtails.

Above attach as normal.

I've never flown a Rev without the leading edge mesh other than the Indoor so not sure if I would leave it out. Probably leave it out.

In still conditions I prefer my modded SUL over my Indoor but it is a little more work. Only a little.

Curve ball idea. A SUL B2 Std with a diamond frame....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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okay, it's an SUL, lighter and more delicate than your current model patterned after my efforts, (with all that modification crap on it). The material (fabric) is very light for the sail and translucent to sunlight (or an LED) also. The frame is delicate, but worthy of outside in very low wind conditions.

The kite also flies indoors (right out of the shipping container) with no adjustments necessary. It uses a stock-ish bridle and is the same size/shape as the 1.5 platform we all know and love so much. So it flies like a matched-set should, no dramatic transition of skill-sets from indoors to outside.

I'd say it's in-between the dedicated indoor and a Zen in performance,.. not as flexible or squirrelly as the indoor model is outside, but still that slow graceful presence feature of the Zen whether using wind or your feet indoors

Wind range is probably 2 mph down to a negative number!

uncle ben Dantonio was flying it on about a 100 feet of line in a dead calm, not working hard or moving around much at all, all this when most everyone was watching from the sidelines. It might not be for lessons or beginners, but it's going to a be a requirement during the summer months of the Mid-Atlantic states for the WOW hard-core faithful.

I am not sponsored except by my own bride, HA!

You want one of these unless you live on the northern coast of an ocean and never have a lack of wind. I won't buy an ultra-vented Rev because it will not see enough use to justify the expense, on the other hand I'd buy two of these as soon as possible. Wear one of 'em out and see how I want it modified for great durability or improved performance. Meanwhile I have a spare for lessons or to continue working on one in each hand at the same time.

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