Desert Rat Flyer Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 My next Rev purchase is some diamond rods, So thinking about getting a SUL. Don't care for the SLE sail pattern, What options is everyone using? Read somewhere about Rev/Polo print sails are lightweight. Love some of those designs. How do they work as a SUL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 johnnmitchell Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Take a look at revkites.com under "Our Products". You will see a number of different versions of the REV 1.5. - EXP - SLE (SLE is no longer on the sail) - New York Minute - John Barresi series and the Pro version of same - Masterpiece series (very few still available) - Special Editions Not mentioned are the printed versions which you should call Lolly at Revolution and ask her what is available. Amongst the printed versions you find that there are some I designed such as the Spirograph(Pin-art) and the Baby Tiger. Take a look at this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=720118878011561&set=pcb.720119681344814&type=1&theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Desert Rat Flyer Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Thanks for the info. I saw your post on printed kites. Nice work by the way. Found little else on the site. Now I know to call Lolly. Follow up question, Are the printed sails effective as a SUL or just like a full b sail? Polo Site shows printed sails come in UL, standard and vented. What is different on the UL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 REVflyer Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 if you want to wait for a custom and not support a merchant directly, you can call the factory. There are two trains of thought on light weight kites. Mass vs float A carefully shaped sail, pieced and sewn together, fabric bias considered for stretching & strength on every panel, you could go further,... requesting a 1-1/2 oz nylon (instead of standard Dacron 3.9 oz) leading edge sleeve you can occasionally request a tighter leading edge sleeve be built too (more aerodynamic), so it only holds 1 quarter inch diameter tube. or Buy a single skinned sail (building it yourself?, consider a bonded assembly process instead of sewing, use 9460 tape from 3M). Without the weight of the thread or any extra layers of fabric material you will arrive at the lightest weight kite for a given surface area. So now you're down to the real question. How much mass is necessary to make flight enjoyable? With proper weight placement you get a free bit of motion. It the kite is utterly insignificant in weight you don't get a free ride, the kite is all floaty but ONLY when affixed to your control inputs. As soon as you give any slack at all the kite falls unless you are tending these lines carefully. (you may be moving all around instead of standing stationary!) I've never owned a Polo, but I do have a lot of experience with single skinned "no-sew" sails. This past weekend I flew a dedicated indoor 1.5, homebuilt by that grand-master Dave Ashworth (mostly orcon w/bits of icarex, the frame is Breeze tapered leading edge and point 125 carbon tubes for the down-spars) It weights about as much as 4-5 single dollar bills in a number ten envelope). I compared it against a highly customized Zen on 100 feet of 50# LPG using 15 inch no-snags. One was all floaty, effortless flight, but not relaxing. You can't stand stationary but you could fly with single church fart most of the day. The other kite was more effort to maintain flight but also more rewarding with it's capabilities. Yeah! I still had to move, but the kite would also do a bunch of cool tricks and I wasn't breaking a hard sweat to enjoy myself either. It was a dead calm hot humid day, I only flew until the shadows from the trees rotated away from my direction. There's no easy solution, everything you modify has an overall impact on the dynamics of flight. Bazzer makes a super slick SUL B-series Pro, but he doesn't like doing it "my way". Eliot Shook makes the most killer leading edge sleeves you've ever seen, if you can afford that price of admission. I have combined the two makers into several kites, the best one is a Zen. I have owned and flown single skinned SULs no-sews homebuilts for probably 5,000 hours as well. Framing matters as well as the bridle style, again a bunch of variables can impact the flight dynamics and only comparisons will show you the differences. I like a ultra responsive kite, others might call it too twitchy. I prefer weight be placed in specific areas and lessened in others, for example you can shorten the down spars so they end at the bottom of the sail (probably an inch or so) This moves the balance point towards the leading edge and makes a field recovery glide a pilot-less certainty. You could go further with a dedicated SUL. You could go to a tapered spar, again pushing the balance point more towards the leading edge. Bridle choices decide where on the frame's leading edge the kite will bend, sure you could add stiffness or flex by switching around frames. I use a french bridle. Instead of holding the kite, it's arc-welded! It bends on the outer thirds, not in the center, so if I want more mass (for throwing it around) I could swap out the center tube to something stiffer. It will not change how the kite powers up, just how much weight is available, all packed around the leading edge. Discuss your needs and open your cheque book, but no one solution will ever solve all the concerns. If you push hard enough in only one direction,..... "that's all the kite will ever do acceptably" one thing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Robtulloch Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 My 1.6cents, due to the Aussie dollar not being too favourable. I have a 1.5SUL with a Diamond frame, magic sticks and a French bridle. It's is a light wind monster. It was one of the TKC units just as Revolution stopped making the 1.5SUL. The factory SUL's were made of lighter sail fabric as well as lighter leading edge pocket. Mine only had the lighter leading edge pocket. If you want the absolute lightest 1.5 get a single skin printed sail. I will get one eventually... BUT A bit of light wind skill will take you lower than any sail will. Being able to fly a standard in still air takes time but it is very rewarding. The extra mass can be very advantageous in flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Lolly Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Hello Desert Rat, and family, Sorry I have not been vocal lately. Honestly, I check what's going on, and the Rev family is so great with answers and info, I am feeling abit un-needed. No worries. I am keeping busy with new flyers, new products, and new Masterpiece artists! For the SUL/ Light wind flying, we are suggesting the printed sails. They are amazing ! We have a few of the Spirograph sails in the Rainbow colors available now. The Tiger Cubs were a huge hit at Long Beach, Washington festival with light wind days. I gave lessons, Penny demoed with the kite, a great time and no problem in the 2-3 mph winds. The printed sail with a Diamond frame is the way to laugh-back at a No Wind day. I know you know what I'm talking about : ) These are going fast. Yes, Give me a call ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 portlandflyer Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Here, here on technique!! You can chase equipment all day, but if you haven't developed the skill to get the most from it - ?? REVflier brings up many good points on equipment choices, but he also has spent countless hours developing the skills to use his setup! The sail and everything involved will help, but you've got to put in the time to really use it!! Time on the lines - no substitute!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Desert Rat Flyer Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 RevFlyer. Thanks for the detailed reply very information and appreciated. Not interested in going down the rabbit hole of chasing the lowest weight possible for anorexic kite. Own about 8 dual line SUL's and the saying "the lower is flies the less it does is true." Plus these kite require a different flying style. My favorite light wind kites have gone on a diet but skill keep the weight on in the right places to still fly well. . SparkieRob Your setup is what I am looking for. The kite still flies like a 1.5 but in lower wind Lolly Sorry I missed you today. Read your message to late. We can talk on Monday. StrokeSurvivor Same issue with dual line. Light wind flying is an advanced flying skill to learn. Also know the quickest way to develop your skills is with the right equipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Lolly Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Happy monday Rev family, Another great day here at Rev. I talked about the great light wind flying (and giving lessons) of the printed sail. We had a great response to the Spirograph ( string art) and have a few more of the rainbow colors available. New to this lightwind set is the Tiger Cubs. John Mitchell has again, beautifully created this artwork. Thank you John !! A few of these are available. This is limited. Drop me a line. Have a great week, Lolly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 johnnmitchell Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 This is the Spirograph with a sunset background: https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/10628585_10204873214455357_6005949688961697367_n.jpg?oh=388e4eabddfb3a0059ce2f51adfca9b9&oe=548F9909 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Desert Rat Flyer Posted September 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Great talking to Lolly. Answered all my questions. Should be getting my 40% Shook weave this week. Next up is a print sail for light winds.. Like the tiger clubs print, but won't work here in Las Vegas, We also fly at night. Looking at light/bright colored sails like the Spirograph. Time to sale some more dual line kites for more revs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 stickerman Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 hi desert RF as Lolly said, for me, the best UL is a printed one. (much better than others) revopolo (fr) or los hermanos (sp), all by LH.... same manufacturing process, same weight and approved by revolution but if you call directly los Hermanos, you can give him your own graphic design. (mount it in P30 or equivalent, with ultra light lines.... and go fly from near zero wind) mine (by LH - graphic design, StiCker Man): if you have no idea for original or shifted graphic design.... i can help you, MP me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Desert Rat Flyer Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Flying Buckeye Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm interested in the all white Ghost SUL from TKC I was wondering the wind range, what lines should be used, what wrap of spars are best, and handle length to get the most out of the kite. Should I go with the SUL or get the standard sail also available from TKC Looking to fly in low wind, but I don't want to blow the kite apart, or break the bridle in higher wind, and looking for the limits of the SUL. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Robtulloch Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm interested in the all white Ghost SUL from TKC I was wondering the wind range, what lines should be used, what wrap of spars are best, and handle length to get the most out of the kite. Should I go with the SUL or get the standard sail also available from TKC Looking to fly in low wind, but I don't want to blow the kite apart, or break the bridle in higher wind, and looking for the limits of the SUL. Thanks I have the same kite. I have a Diamond frame, a French Bridle and Magic Sticks. I use 15 inch handles. Wind range on that set up is a true zero to about 16km/h(10mp/h). It's still relatively comfortable at the upper range but I have other kites so have never needed to push it. It will happily fly in the middle of that range on 120 foot. But the bottom range at that length is working it. At zero wind on 30 feet it's is really a slow walk to keep it going. I got the extra bits as I wanted a Zen like kite but a little more 1.5 responsiveness. The Spectre bridle that it originally came with I didn't like at all. I had one knot that kept coming loose. I painted it with nail polish and put a stop to that but it just didn't feel the way I wanted. I got the Diamond frame with the French Bridle as a support. Diamonds aren't cheap. The shop I was getting them sold the Magic Sticks so I got a set to try out. Low wind weapon, yes it is. BUT. You will need to give some movement into it. If you can "feel" a breeze then that is enough to stand and fly it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Robtulloch Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Flying Buckeye Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I have the same kite. I have a Diamond frame, a French Bridle and Magic Sticks. I use 15 inch handles. Wind range on that set up is a true zero to about 16km/h(10mp/h). It's still relatively comfortable at the upper range but I have other kites so have never needed to push it. It will happily fly in the middle of that range on 120 foot. But the bottom range at that length is working it. At zero wind on 30 feet it's is really a slow walk to keep it going. I got the extra bits as I wanted a Zen like kite but a little more 1.5 responsiveness. The Spectre bridle that it originally came with I didn't like at all. I had one knot that kept coming loose. I painted it with nail polish and put a stop to that but it just didn't feel the way I wanted. I got the Diamond frame with the French Bridle as a support. Diamonds aren't cheap. The shop I was getting them sold the Magic Sticks so I got a set to try out. Low wind weapon, yes it is. BUT. You will need to give some movement into it. If you can "feel" a breeze then that is enough to stand and fly it. Nice information, but I must admit you lost me at French Bridle, and Magic Sticks. I'm not sure if I want to add weight to a ultra light. I have heard of pilots using 2 wrap, and 3 wrap frames in light wind, and it makes my brain melt. I have a Revolution 1.5, and Revolution B Series, and trying to find some low wind fun, I still have a lot to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Robtulloch Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Nice information, but I must admit you lost me at French Bridle, and Magic Sticks. I'm not sure if I want to add weight to a ultra light. I have heard of pilots using 2 wrap, and 3 wrap frames in light wind, and it makes my brain melt. I have a Revolution 1.5, and Revolution B Series, and trying to find some low wind fun, I still have a lot to learn. If you have a "full sail", that is a sail with no other venting screen other than the strip that runs along the leading (top) edge, a set of lighter rods will serve you better than a new sail/kite. 1) Diamond rods are very light, Revolutions lightest, and they snap back into shape very quickly after they have been compressed. They aren't cheap but are brilliant for very light winds. 2) Black Race rads are light, not as light as the Diamonds, and snap back in a very similar way. They are a bit more robust and can take a bit more sail pressure. If you have a 2 wrap frame that will serve you well while you practice your light wind flying. Technique will serve you better than all of these. Each component helps but learning how to cycle your ground, when to load and unload your sail all will teach you more. Also, light wind flying is outside most people's comfort zone to start with. Very frustrating. Stick at it. There are tutorials specifically for light wind flying on a Rev, JB has done some on the Kitelife forum. The Magic Sticks are the framework sticking out from the back of the kite (rhs of pic) picture I posted. They act like a truss to stiffen up the frame. The extra weight isn't as much as you think. The French Bridle is in place of the normal bridle (on the front, lhs of pic) and acts to change where and when the forces on the frame are distributed. Ask questions. Poke around the forum. There is lots of quality information on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Flying Buckeye Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 If you have a "full sail", that is a sail with no other venting screen other than the strip that runs along the leading (top) edge, a set of lighter rods will serve you better than a new sail/kite. 1) Diamond rods are very light, Revolutions lightest, and they snap back into shape very quickly after they have been compressed. They aren't cheap but are brilliant for very light winds. 2) Black Race rads are light, not as light as the Diamonds, and snap back in a very similar way. They are a bit more robust and can take a bit more sail pressure. If you have a 2 wrap frame that will serve you well while you practice your light wind flying. Technique will serve you better than all of these. Each component helps but learning how to cycle your ground, when to load and unload your sail all will teach you more. Also, light wind flying is outside most people's comfort zone to start with. Very frustrating. Stick at it. There are tutorials specifically for light wind flying on a Rev, JB has done some on the Kitelife forum. The Magic Sticks are the framework sticking out from the back of the kite (rhs of pic) picture I posted. They act like a truss to stiffen up the frame. The extra weight isn't as much as you think. The French Bridle is in place of the normal bridle (on the front, lhs of pic) and acts to change where and when the forces on the frame are distributed. Ask questions. Poke around the forum. There is lots of quality information on here. Are the Diamond frames the same as the Zen Frame? What about the Green Race frame for light wind flying? I have no idea where to find a French Bridle, or how to install it, maybe I should just be content that I can fly, and not get to technical.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Robtulloch Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Never flown the Zen or Green Race frame so I cannot make a personal comparison, sorry. Cath and Eliot Shook at Flying Smiles Kites have French Bridles. Don't worry as they come with very good instructions on how to install. Youre dead on about "just flying". That is the best thing. Your confidence and skills increase every time. Watch what other pilots do to stay up in low wind. If you can, meet up with others and learn from them. Jump in, the waters fine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 portlandflyer Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Diamond rods = light, stiff. Zen rods in 1.5 size = ?? Green race = heavier, but stronger. Not my choice for light wind. I use mine in my X/V. Never used the "french bridle" on my kites, but have tried one. Would need more time on it to really feel any advantage. I'll admit to having a full complement of Revs from Zen to X/V, so I am prepared to use the "correct" sail in any wind. Really comes down to your wants and budget!! Good Flying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 johnnmitchell Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Wayne,I do have a set of ZEN rods for a REV 1.5, however I never came up with a conclusion on them. I also have another odd set of rods being green race rods for a REV I or ZEN. They are my preferred rod on the ZEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 portlandflyer Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 John - never tried green race in a Rev 1 or Zen. Several have said to try some - but not on my budget. My preferred setup is 2 wrap center with black race wingtips and Zen verts. Lighter and stiffer, plus a set of "magic sticks" to limit flex even more. PS: already had the RRs as I was trying to lighten up my Rev 1. Did get some diamonds for last year as a team thing - like them, but use them only in my SUL with sticks too. Almost a mini Zen. They are the newer Green Label trimmed rods, not the older ones. I'd like to try Zen 1.5 rods to see if they are any stiffer as a shorter set. I feel the Zen rods for the Zen are way too flexible for me at that length - shorter - maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Flying Buckeye Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I would like to try the Diamond rods, are they a special order item, as cant find them online. How much is a full set of Diamond rods for the 1.5 SUL ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 portlandflyer Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 You would either need to contact a Rev dealer or Lolly herself for prices. They are not a special order item, but they also are not overly common at some shops. Some just carry basics, others more specialized gear. Not too surprised at not finding them! If you can't find a store - try this number - 1-858-679-5785 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 awindofchange Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 We have them in stock, give Daelyn a call and she can get you taken care of. 801.327.8686 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Desert Rat Flyer
My next Rev purchase is some diamond rods, So thinking about getting a SUL.
Don't care for the SLE sail pattern, What options is everyone using?
Read somewhere about Rev/Polo print sails are lightweight. Love some of those designs. How do they work as a SUL?
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