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Flippa
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Here are pics of the specific sail and handles in question B)

The photo with the handles obviously has a different sail at the end of the lines, but it shows the leaders nicely for enquiring minds. I was flying on an 8" differential between top and bottom and if you were to use the knot closest to the handle you would have between 5.5 and 5.75 inch differential.

For those wondering about the knot really close to the top of the handle - I was unsure how the no-snag modification would wear on the leaders so I made identical short leaders top and bottom (they're about 1" from the handle) and then just attached my normal leader to the top pigtail. I didn't bother attaching my original bottom leader since I didn't need more than a single knot on the bottom anyway.

I use the same short pigtail setup on my Pro handles since I use them to fly my indoor rev with. I simply remove the top and bottom leaders from the pigtails and attach the indoor rev to those - all adjustment on my indoor is made on the kite side. Since I know someone will ask - no, I have not had any snag issues with this arrangement. Granted, I'm no trick monster ... but I've been flying this arrangement for about a year without a problem.

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5.5 inches sounds like a lot of brake for a beginner to manage. I know some say you should start out learning with a lot of brake, but I think it makes the transition harder for an established dual line pilot.

Those extra two inch bottom leaders should do the trick to get you launching upright. Alternatively, tying an extra knot or two in the top leaders closer to the handle would have almost the same effect.

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the dimensions of difference don't matter, as much as the ability to back-up when inverted on the ground. Regardless of skill or comfort level, if the kite can't do this then it needs tuning. Maybe the pilot's skill is lacking those first few hours, but buzzing around and not clearly focusing on reverse flight, speed control and hover is not doing much good over the long run.

I give folks lessons all the time and use a ton of down in my personal preference settings. If you didn't know they came any other way, you'd learn with lots of down as a matter of course. In dead calm/low wind you either learn to add lots of down in the tuning (and pump the sail occasionally) or you watch from the sidelines.

Final exam day is coming in the mid-atlantic states for low wind pilots,... Richmond's sport kite championships, June 16, 2012. All the low wind examples you could ever hope for will be on display. Pick one person's style that you admire and ask for assistance, we all share what we know.

I expect to see you there Brian!

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I agree and disagree ... why be normal ;)

I also hand beginners my handles with a full 8 inches of differential and they either struggle no more than any other beginner or they fly fine. My experience agrees with yours in that total new people react the same regardless of settings ... its those with some degree of experience who struggle most to adapt.

In this case, there is previous flying experience so that could be working against him for now. Once we get together and work hands on we will set a clear path of tuning.

On the flip side, while you may be correct about doing things right in the interests of the long run ... as a married man you should know better than to cloud the issue with facts :P

I know a number of people across a few countries who would have given up and tossed their rev because they were not experiencing success and fun. At the end of the day its just kites and the whole point is to have fun ... if the person isn't having fun then theres no point to what they're doing.

I say get them in the air and smiling, then show them the possibilities and let them go with whatever makes them even happier.

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the dimensions of difference don't matter, as much as the ability to back-up when inverted on the ground. Regardless of skill or comfort level, if the kite can't do this then it needs tuning. Maybe the pilot's skill is lacking those first few hours, but buzzing around and not clearly focusing on reverse flight, speed control and hover is not doing much good over the long run.

I give folks lessons all the time and use a ton of down in my personal preference settings. If you didn't know they came any other way, you'd learn with lots of down as a matter of course. In dead calm/low wind you either learn to add lots of down in the tuning (and pump the sail occasionally) or you watch from the sidelines.

Hey Paul! I thought that might get a rise out of you. When I said "I know some say you should start out learning with a lot of brake" what I should have said was "Paul says you should start out learning with a lot of brake". :)

Final exam day is coming in the mid-atlantic states for low wind pilots,... Richmond's sport kite championships, June 16, 2012. All the low wind examples you could ever hope for will be on display. Pick one person's style that you admire and ask for assistance, we all share what we know.

I expect to see you there Brian!

I'll be there, my friend. Sadly only in the AM as I have major family conflicts in the afternoon.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think its only fair that I chime in at this point and thank Steven for all his assistance on Tuesday last week. Having just got back from holiday, I haven't been frequenting the forum like I should, in order to do so.

Tuesday was very much an eye opener and I had a whole lot of fun. I was introduced to one of Steven's full sail Rev's on 15 metre lines and run through the basics of setup, launch, flight, control and landing. After some exercises, I was allowed to fly on my own for a while and then introduced to my own Rev (vented) as the wind built up. There were definitely some moments where I could feel Steven wince behind me as I lost control of the Rev. blue_biggrin.gif

I must say that I found it reasonably easy to control the Rev after only a little while. Mastery will take a whole lot longer though, I'm sure!

The one thing I found was the effect that lines have on the kite is quite significant. On Tuesday, I flew with LPG 90# at 15 metres (one of Steven's many sets). On Wednesday, Thursday and Friday I flew on my own set of 90kg Spectra at 30 metres in varying wind conditions. The Rev felt a lot more sluggish on my lines and didn't respond as quickly or cleanly as on the LPG, even in wind conditions that were fairly similar to Tuesday's.

I'm now back in Johannesburg and, of course, there is not a breath of wind to be seen. kid_cussing.gif No matter, I plan to order some LPG and go flying as soon as it arrives. I'm also considering a full sail Rev..........kid_devlish.gifkid_devlish.gifkid_devlish.gifkid_devlish.gifkid_devlish.gifkid_devlish.gif

Thanks again, Steven.

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This is a 'pay it forward' game ... the only reason thanks are nice is so that we know we are doing a decent job :-)

There was no wincing going on, just smiles knowing the wind was keeping you in check and letting you know theres still work to be done ;-)

Now you know why many of us pay for good line like LPG ... why ruin a $300+ experience with $10 line. Like so many things, we get what we pay for ... i'm glad you felt the difference and can make yourbown choice now.

When you have that full sail come play again for some low wind training. Watty and JB are way better than me, but i got some skills and i'm cheaper than a flight state-side ;-)

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