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No ferrules


Lavarr
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Hi,

I've just recived a rev 1.5 from the states (I live and usually buy in Italy).

The rev doesn't have the SLE, it has standard 3 wrap frame. I've noticed the leading edge doesn't have any ferrules between spars, the center spar simply fit into the outer spars.

Is it safe to fly without ferrules or there's the risk of breaking the L.E.?

thanks

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This is normal.

The older revs had metal ferrules, but the newer ones have a solid rod to slide into the mating spar. Works great, just remember to ensure they are put together fully otherwise they will break (same with the ferrule).

FYI I was flying in winds gusting up to 45mph yesterday with a 3 and 2wrap in the LE, all good.

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Hi,

I've just recived a rev 1.5 from the states (I live and usually buy in Italy).

The rev doesn't have the SLE, it has standard 3 wrap frame. I've noticed the leading edge doesn't have any ferrules between spars, the center spar simply fit into the outer spars.

Is it safe to fly without ferrules or there's the risk of breaking the L.E.?

thanks

This leading edge does have ferrules. The center spar has solid bits that poke out of each end about an inch and a half. This is actually a 3 inch solid rod that is used as a ferrule. As others touched on, the ferrule is held in by glue, and on occasion the glue may slip. The ferrule than can slide into the rod leaving less mass poking out of the center rod. Be sure to check for this every now and again, because if the ferrule is not poking out enough, the connecting rod may break and splinter on the end. Other than that, these ferrules are perfectly safe to use without risk of breaking the LE.

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Thanks everybody for the answers!

I was expecting external metal ferrules, so I was a little confused. Also, the connection between the LE spars is not very tight, they separate really easily so I had some doubts...

Thanks again!

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Thanks everybody for the answers!

I was expecting external metal ferrules, so I was a little confused. Also, the connection between the LE spars is not very tight, they separate really easily so I had some doubts...

Thanks again!

You should find that the tension created by attaching the bungee cords with caps, more than enough to keep everything together!!! kid_devlish.gif Just make sure to completely seat the rod sections together in the assembly process to prevent any problems!! smile.gif

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I've run a "tensioning line" thru (actually parallel and place behind, not inserted inside) the leading edge sleeve to pre-tension (forcing more curvature) and secure everything on more than one occasion. Then the caps can't come off, no matter how abusive you fly the kite! Lam Hoac showed me how he uses it and it made sense to me, so another thing I stole from a better flier, they all add up too, HA!

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I think that the new (well, new for me as a 1990-vintage Rev I owner) system of short rods or plugs for joining LE spars can't really be called ferrules. Ferrule has a distinct meaning in English of a metal band placed on the OUTSIDE to strengthen a rod, protect the end, or form a joint. What the name should be for these internal joiners is something I've never considered.

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I've run a "tensioning line" thru (actually parallel and place behind, not inserted inside) the leading edge sleeve to pre-tension (forcing more curvature) and secure everything on more than one occasion. Then the caps can't come off, no matter how abusive you fly the kite! Lam Hoac showed me how he uses it and it made sense to me, so another thing I stole from a better flier, they all add up too, HA!

Interesting ! Do you tie the tensioning line, "in the hole", on the outer end, of the end cap ? confused_1.gif

also,

I'm a little confused: You said that you have "run a tensioning line thru", but then you say "not inserted inside", while both of these statements, appear to be referring to the leading edge sleeve. Can you elaborate a bit, or maybe a picture might help............kid_smartass.gif

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I think that the new (well, new for me as a 1990-vintage Rev I owner) system of short rods or plugs for joining LE spars can't really be called ferrules. Ferrule has a distinct meaning in English of a metal band placed on the OUTSIDE to strengthen a rod, protect the end, or form a joint. What the name should be for these internal joiners is something I've never considered.

Dowel?

A dowel is a solid cylindrical rod, usually made of wood, plastic or metal used to secure two objects together with precise alignment.

Cheers

Stephen

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Interesting ! Do you tie the tensioning line, "in the hole", on the outer end, of the end cap ? confused_1.gif

also,

I'm a little confused: You said that you have "run a tensioning line thru", but then you say "not inserted inside", while both of these statements, appear to be referring to the leading edge sleeve. Can you elaborate a bit, or maybe a picture might help............kid_smartass.gif

I'm a little lost also!!confused_1.gif If the line is behind the LE pocket, wouldn't that introduce a reverse curve in the LE?? I realize you use "magic sticks" and a bridle change, but this is a little confusing!!wacko.gif

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I'm a little lost also!!confused_1.gif If the line is behind the LE pocket, wouldn't that introduce a reverse curve in the LE?? I realize you use "magic sticks" and a bridle change, but this is a little confusing!!wacko.gif

I'm glad you asked that SV. I also, didn't understand the "curvature" part, but thought I had already asked a dumb question. I must be missing something here. I'm hoping for a picture, because I am truly interested in this "tensioning line" suggestion. I have jerked an end cap off several times, while in a reverse hover, that wasn't exactly hovering kid_content.gif

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I'm glad you asked that SV. I also, didn't understand the "curvature" part, but thought I had already asked a dumb question. I must be missing something here. I'm hoping for a picture, because I am truly interested in this "tensioning line" suggestion. I have jerked an end cap off several times, while in a reverse hover, that wasn't exactly hovering kid_content.gif

I, myself, can only remember losing an end cap once, when the kite hit the ground in a gust that got me temporarily out of control!!kid_devlish.gif So I'm not seeing a need, IMHO, for another line!! But further clarification would be nice!!!smile.gif

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imagine a Rok kite that needs a curve built in to fly successfully. There's a line that can be snugged down (and stays there!) as well as move freely if you work it correctly. Well I place that line into the Rev's leading edge. It runs in between the elastics and the sleeve so it can't jump around. By pre-tensioning the sail you're cupping the air more or you can have it looser, . . . so only the end-caps can't fall off. What happens if you added in a big dose of curve? By deforming the sail you're forcing it into a 3 dimensional shape. That loses the low end wind range but make the kite all floaty. You know how when you fly to the far edge of the window and it suddenly falls out of the sky, . . .well if you placed the sail into a 3-D shape that can't happen nearly as easily. It's fun to experiment and this is just another variable. If you add magic sticks you can force the downspars to add curvature as well. Then the kite will dead-launch or spin 180 degrees much easier. But you'll sacrefice some of the low end flight ability and some of the precision too. Every modification has some trade-offs!

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I should add, the leading edge curvature is up and down, not front to back, unless you over-tighten it severely!

Here's another example, say you wanted to cut/shorten the spars down somewhat, so they ended at the edges of the sail. Why drag around excess weight, anything sticking out beyond the sail could be considered extra, right?!!?

Well now the standard cap assembly & elastics might not hold it securely enough for draggin' it across the soil, so you can tie it down snug with the tensioning line and still easily release it when it's time to pack-up and go home. You didn't dramatically alter the flight characteristics but it can't come apart!

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Dowel?

A dowel is a solid cylindrical rod, usually made of wood, plastic or metal used to secure two objects together with precise alignment.

Cheers

Stephen

Excellent choice. Somehow, I doubt that it will fly. (Pun intended.)

People are so accustomed to saying ferrule to describe any spar joint that it is probably stuck as a new meaning for the word. Too bad; it means that there is one less precise word in the English language.

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imagine a Rok kite that needs a curve built in to fly successfully.

<snip>

Every modification has some trade-offs!

I am perplexed by the 'fact' that the basic 'Revolution' format has proved to be so adaptable to successful 'fine tuning' over a long period of time. How on earth were the initial design decisions made?

Felix

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Like I said: another precision word is lost forever. It's not the first, and it certainly won't be the last to lose its precise meaning.blue_sad.gif

I guess you could call it an evolution of the English language.

Some languages are frozen in that they can not develop any further. If I recall correctly the Japanese language falls in that category.

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Like I said: another precision word is lost forever. It's not the first, and it certainly won't be the last to lose its precise meaning.blue_sad.gif

But Pete, to be totally fair, you must also take exception to the use of "rod" to describe the rest of the framework. Rods have a solid cross section while our frame members are hollow. Tube is a more precise description.

Cheers,

Tom

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But Pete, to be totally fair, you must also take exception to the use of "rod" to describe the rest of the framework. Rods have a solid cross section while our frame members are hollow. Tube is a more precise description.

Cheers,

Tom

You may notice that I prefer the word 'spar', to describe the function, rather than the geometry.

(Just being silly. I really don't mind what people call things, as long as they all agree on a consistent vocabulary.)

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I guess you could call it an evolution of the English language. Some languages are frozen in that they can not develop any further. If I recall correctly the Japanese language falls in that category.
I consider it a devolution, but I also realize that I am in a tiny minority. Who cares that 'decimate' really means 'execute every tenth man in a regiment as punishment for regimental failure'; everyone seems to think it just means "beat really badly". Who really cares that 'ferrule' means a metal band placed on the OUTSIDE of a rod or tube to strengthen it or to form a joint. It's based on the Latin word for an iron bracelet. Let it mean exactly the opposite: something placed on the INSIDE. Who cares? (Beside a few die-hards.) scholar.gif

My daughter taught English-as-a-second-language and Japanese Linguistics in Japan for a while, after studying Linguistics under John Lawler at the University of Michigan for nearly 10 years. She found that native teachers of Japanese did not know how their own language had evolved over the past several thousand years and were teaching their students that "this is just how the language is" when there were actual reasons for things like irregular word forms. I would not say that Japanese was 'frozen', at least not in the long term. Apparently many teachers of Japanese in Japan may think so and teach it that way, but it turns out not to be the true situation.

I, myself, quit formal education after high-school, but spent the next fifty years reading several books per day. I suppose that it gave me an exaggerated respect for language that is hard to shake after all these years.

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