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Indoor flying with artificial wind .


inventing_man

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I've actually thought of this. I can just imagine a big building where one side just has HUGE fans. It could be used to practice outdoor flying, then the fans could be turned off and closed to do normal indoor flying :D

Hi Watty

Fans or Blowers ? and How large ( or many) do you think It will take ?

Any Special Wall building to "tunnel" the wind ? Would it be better to use the fan or blowers as suction Pulling straight air into the kite ... instead of Blowing turbulent air into it ?

How Long would the control lines be ?

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Well, in the UK we are breeding world class snowboarders by sticking them inside massive fridges and teaching them to do jumps and rails on snowboards so why not? My only concern, which is similar really to indoor snow, is that without the tempering influence of real wind (or real mountains and snow) you might end up breeding a new type of kite flyer (snowboarder) who has now idea how to read the wind (terrain), different conditions or experience the delight (!) of pulling off an axel just as the wind changes (riding on ice!). . .

Marty :kid_content:

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Well, in the UK we are breeding world class snowboarders by sticking them inside massive fridges and teaching them to do jumps and rails on snowboards so why not? My only concern, which is similar really to indoor snow, is that without the tempering influence of real wind (or real mountains and snow) you might end up breeding a new type of kite flyer (snowboarder) who has now idea how to read the wind (terrain), different conditions or experience the delight (!) of pulling off an axel just as the wind changes (riding on ice!). . .

Marty :kid_content:

If a straight wind chamber can be done , then I suppose "turbulence" could be introduced . In the way of turning on some blowers, or turning the straight wind with big "rudders" .

As a starting point, How long do you think the lines need to be ? This will define the building size > and cubic feet of air to move.

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How much money do you want to spend?

I'd say, if money is no object, build it 260 feet wide and 150 feet high in the shape of a flattened half circle - no square corners. This should allow for team flying. Length depends on how many people you would want to have flying at the same time vs how much air you could move down the tube at a constant velocity. The fans would probably need some kind of louver system to condition the wind that is generated. I could use one of these wind tunnels here!

Bart

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That would be Nice indeed , but just as a starting point lets say you have a room of around 30 foot square L ,W, H , and lines of 25 foot long flying a single ultra light in a wind of 5 -7 mph. What would it take in air handling equipment to get that . Then expand on it to see where a nominal size / price resides.

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Perhaps one of those huge aircraft hangers with fans at one end. The fans should be exhaust fans, pulling the air through the building, just as mother nature uses low pressure areas to pull the air from high pressure areas.

Air is much more easily pulled than pushed.

Why don't you work on this, Watty?

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Hi Watty

Fans or Blowers ? and How large ( or many) do you think It will take ?

Any Special Wall building to "tunnel" the wind ? Would it be better to use the fan or blowers as suction Pulling straight air into the kite ... instead of Blowing turbulent air into it ?

How Long would the control lines be ?

I think the fans would work best because it would have a smoother wind (if that makes sense). The blowers would be too concentrated in particular areas while fans are more spread out.

Ideally, it would be cool to be able to practice team stuff on 120' lines. But going all the way down to 20 foot lines doesn't sound as much fun. With REALLY short lines outdoors, there really is not as much you can do. The shortest line set I use outdoors is 30'.

Perhaps one of those huge aircraft hangers with fans at one end. The fans should be exhaust fans, pulling the air through the building, just as mother nature uses low pressure areas to pull the air from high pressure areas.

Air is much more easily pulled than pushed.

Why don't you work on this, Watty?

HA! I don't have the money or the time!

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Perhaps one of those huge aircraft hangers with fans at one end. The fans should be exhaust fans, pulling the air through the building, just as mother nature uses low pressure areas to pull the air from high pressure areas.

Air is much more easily pulled than pushed.

Why don't you work on this, Watty?

Seems to me there were some blimp hangers which are arch shaped somewhere in California that aren't being used.

It would be on an ex-Naval base, but I can't recall the name however El Toro seems to ring a bell.

I think fans behind you would be best, just in case the REV got loose it wouldn't be eaten.

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I think the fans would work best because it would have a smoother wind (if that makes sense). The blowers would be too concentrated in particular areas while fans are more spread out.

Ideally, it would be cool to be able to practice team stuff on 120' lines. But going all the way down to 20 foot lines doesn't sound as much fun. With REALLY short lines outdoors, there really is not as much you can do. The shortest line set I use outdoors is 30'.

HA! I don't have the money or the time!

To make it like the winds I am use to, use oscillating fans with random automatic on/off switch and variable speed

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Essentially you are talking about a wind tunnel. Here is some info on wind tunnels, and on the worlds largest, located in the NASA Ames Research Center,

Mountain View, California:

http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/WindTunnel.html

I bet someone with enough cash or clout could get some time in that! :sign_kitelife:

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For a few years now, there have been indoor windsurfing competitions (mostly for display purposes) and they say it is different from sailing outdoors (no surprise there). Banks of fans generate the lift they need for speed and jumps. Force 4 is a good starting point for them.

The London boat show featured indoor windsurfing from 2004 to (?) 2006 or 2007 and other European events have run. Some YouTube videos show the fans they used around the pool. Fortunately kites are lighter!

This one gives a good shot of the fans they used:

In a kite context, I'd guess the scatter from the far wall would need careful planning to prevent carnage.

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A quick google brings up this info:

http://www.pwaworldtour.com/index.php?id=35&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=348&backPid=29&cHash=07e9ddca42

Which states that the fans generate up to 30 knots (about 35 mph) which is waaaaaaay more than we would need - assuming about a 10mph wind is arguably 'perfect' wind you'd only need a couple of those fans.

Also according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsurfing#Indoor_windsurfing there are a permanent indoor facilities being constructed around the globe including Germany. So all we need to do is find some German kite flyers to organise (in partnership of course) the first (w)indoor rev flying championships - there could even have be a water flying heat!

Marty (actually quite excited about this concept now!!) :kid_content:

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A quick google brings up this info:

http://www.pwaworldtour.com/index.php?id=35&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=348&backPid=29&cHash=07e9ddca42

Which states that the fans generate up to 30 knots (about 35 mph) which is waaaaaaay more than we would need - assuming about a 10mph wind is arguably 'perfect' wind you'd only need a couple of those fans.

Also according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsurfing#Indoor_windsurfing there are a permanent indoor facilities being constructed around the globe including Germany. So all we need to do is find some German kite flyers to organise (in partnership of course) the first (w)indoor rev flying championships - there could even have be a water flying heat!

Marty (actually quite excited about this concept now!!) :kid_content:

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The hangers For Blimps are at Moffett Field Ca. And they are huge !! And being used for storing aircraft and Now 1 airship . The NASA wind tunnel is just next door to them . I was stationed there in the late 70's . When the wind tunnel was working , you knew it ...It was LOUD ! Sounded like a jet landing with thrust reverser's on full .

We just need a breeze, not a Cat 5 hurricane So it ought to be not to difficult to realize .

I have not received any e mail replies yet .

Marty , maybe you can inquire of some Industrial air firms on your side of the pond and see what they say ?

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