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Maintaining inverted hover help


John146
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... 15" handles ...

Are you sure you have 15" handles? Measure the tubing length ... along the centerline of the tubing, not across the tips. If you truly have 15" handles, then you might trying a pair of 13" handles (standard with the 1.5 B-series). That will calm the kite down a little bit.

Cheers,

Tom

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Oh, and dont be too rigid with thinking that you have to keep the handles vertical.

<snip>

I would suggest that keeping the handles vertical just simply will not work most of the time.

I think that learning flexibility at the outset will gain a considerable advantage. Please do not tie those wrists together...

Thanks

Felix

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One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike

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One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike

I was amused to try flying the three line kite....

Felix

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One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike

That is something that had not occurred to me before and it does sound a bit counter intuitive, but I think you may have something there. Over control is a common problem for novices and the friction on the lines, created by the wraps may well help to reduce over control.

My only concern is that it will also dampen out any feedback from the kite and learning to interpret the feel of the kite through the handles is an important step on the way to becoming a good Rev flyer.

As with any adjustment (and that’s what we are talking about here, a temporary adjustment,) there is no such thing as a free ride, every benefit has a cost and we all have to decide at what point the costs begin to out weigh the benefits. My advice to any novice on this one is, suck it and see, Downforce Fighter has clearly had some success with this but if truth be told there aren’t many short cuts in this or any other game and there is no substitute for practice.

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In reading your explination of the inverted hover and it being all over.....

You said the bottom leaders were all in. So go all out. If that doesn't fix the over control, move one knot in on top at a time. Too much brake is why your over controlling. More brake will come later. Trust me. Work with the 13" handles first. You'll have better luck when learning.

I still remind myself multiple times when flying to relax my hands. Don't make quick adjustments. Patient hands.......

Small movements. Work up to the point and you'll find in all hover orientations slow, small inputs will get you were you wanna be.

Hope my suggestion works. Because of the abilities of Rev kites Patient hands will be the key. Slow down. Soon you'll find your hands will be just about perfectly still. Every vid of JB exhibits patient hands.

Dean

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THANKS 4 ALL THE HELPFULL advice :ani_yahoo:

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, I've been takin' it all in on lurk mode ;) digestin' it all.

Low winds last Friday: I spent more time fightN my lines on the set-up :ani_whistling::ani_wallbash: dat's another thread. However ,I did manage some inverted hovers. 15" handles both SUL & Pro

Today winds were 10-15: I started with Full Vent B, spent a good hour on this one, 80% inverted hover trainin'. Then I switched to Standard, SLE with 3 wrap frame, whole different feel, much more of a challenge maintainin' inverted hover, another hour in driver seat with 80% of time toward goal @ hand. Started playN with inverted hover slide. 13 B-ser. handles today. :clap2:

Thanks Again

Edited by liabner
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After reading all the posts since I'm new at learning the rev, I did not see any posts about line length or weights in the rods. Must not be any help or someone would have spoke to it.

I've only tried inverted flying on 60ft lines so maybe my 90's will help, not so touchy.

Thanks

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After reading all the posts since I'm new at learning the rev, I did not see any posts about line length or weights in the rods. Must not be any help or someone would have spoke to it.

I've only tried inverted flying on 60ft lines so maybe my 90's will help, not so touchy.

Thanks

The difference in line lengths, does not usually make any significant difference in the handling of the kite. The type of difference you see with longer lines is that the kite has more room to fly. Some would say that it flies "slower". This is because it takes longer for the kite to go from one side of the window to the other, simply because it is a longer distance.

In general, line length and weight of spars do not change the way, but that are able to help in different conditions. Now, the flexability/stiffness of the spars can make a difference, but this is not a large enough difference that you have to have a specific build of lines and rods in order to get an inverted hover. It is one of those things that takes practice, no matter what way you look at it.

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Kinda figured those two things were not big factor. I'm gonna just keep at it. I better put my 3 wraps back in to stiffen up my sail.

What about B-series over 1.5 full vent for learning? The slower vent seems more forgiving.

In general, the vents do smooth out the gusts, which in turn could make the kite less twitchy, giving the kite a smoother feel, which, I think, could help.However the control difference between a full sail and a full vent rev is very dependent on wind conditions, so don't be taking your full-vent out in 3mph wind hoping to achieve a perfect inverted hover.

With this said, as the wind gets higher, a full vent is not invulnerable to the twitchy-ness.

Edited by Watty
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In general, the vents do smooth out the gusts, which in turn could make the kite less twitchy, giving the kite a smoother feel, which, I think, could help.However the control difference between a full sail and a full vent rev is very dependent on wind conditions, so don't be taking your full-vent out in 3mph wind hoping to achieve a perfect inverted hover.

With this said, as the wind gets higher, a full vent is not invulnerable to the twitchy-ness.

Being in North Dallas I sure miss being back in San Diego and the "clean" wind oportunities near the ocean and bays.

Will make do with these "choppy" conditions that seem to be the norm here.

Thanks for all the input.

Kimbo

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  • 2 months later...

Being in North Dallas I sure miss being back in San Diego and the "clean" wind oportunities near the ocean and bays.

Will make do with these "choppy" conditions that seem to be the norm here.

Thanks for all the input.

Kimbo

Finally getting the inverted stunt down. I found that I can do it much better with my left hand close to my waist with my right extended and under my left arm.

May seem odd but this seems to be the only way I can maintain a inverted hover.

Does handle knot configuration makes things easier? Every time I get inverted the kite wants to drop, so I was thinkin there might be an adjustment that will

help with this.

Thanks

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  • 5 months later...

14mph+ winds with gusts .... full vent B .... 4 wrap frame ..... Steven thinks to himself that if I can do down 45 degree hovers it's about time to hit the inverted.

5 minutes later I'm holding it in a small enough area for more than 30 seconds to count as a hover ..... YAY ME !!!!

It was squirly as hell to begin with and I kept spinning out, but every repitition I was holding it longer and longer. My shoulders are still up with tension, but my hands are low and I'm holding it together. I can also reverse it up and fly it down to control height ..... next stop (after some practice) inverted slides. blue_cool.gif

Awesome end to the weekend - cracking the inverted hover

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14mph+ winds with gusts .... full vent B .... 4 wrap frame ..... Steven thinks to himself that if I can do down 45 degree hovers it's about time to hit the inverted.

5 minutes later I'm holding it in a small enough area for more than 30 seconds to count as a hover ..... YAY ME !!!!

It was squirly as hell to begin with and I kept spinning out, but every repitition I was holding it longer and longer. My shoulders are still up with tension, but my hands are low and I'm holding it together. I can also reverse it up and fly it down to control height ..... next stop (after some practice) inverted slides. blue_cool.gif

Awesome end to the weekend - cracking the inverted hover

Good on ya. I found that moving backwards helps. Also got a tip to put a wrap or two in the lines to make things a bit less sensitive.

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inverted hover?

Here's a quick trick to assist you. As you are sliding (for example from the left to the right side) take that handle's bottom end and stick it directly into your rib cage, holding it stationary. Now make all of your adjustments with only one/ the other hand. As you become more proficient you won't need this crutch!

You only thinking about one hand, nothing is mirrored and it's easier to get the "feeling"

As you practice sliding, try to keep the kite at the same level (with starts & stopping the action as well) across the window. You should see it going fast, then dead stop, repeating across the surface and so level/straight it looks like it's riding a laser beam!

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  • 1 month later...

I had an inverted breakthrough today.

Finally I got it. I can now fly inverted from the top of the window in control, fast, slow, hover, and so on. Very excited to have this come to me today.

Practice, practice, practice.

Now if I could get the clockwork, I might be able to fly with some other people.

I also recieved my new used Rev 1 from California today. Looks pretty cool, and cant wait to fly it.

laugh.gif

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Congrats Adam! This month marks the second anniversary of when I first had a real inverted hover!

I still have issues with clockwork though. My suggestion, and what I am trying to do myself, is get there by working on basic up/down/left/right hovers and making the transition from one to the other smoothly and not needing the whole sky to do it. By doing this you are programming your muscles to recognize four points of the clock. After that start adding more points at 45 degree increments until those get programmed.

At least, this is my theory on cracking this one!

Bart

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Congrats Adam! This month marks the second anniversary of when I first had a real inverted hover!

I still have issues with clockwork though. My suggestion, and what I am trying to do myself, is get there by working on basic up/down/left/right hovers and making the transition from one to the other smoothly and not needing the whole sky to do it. By doing this you are programming your muscles to recognize four points of the clock. After that start adding more points at 45 degree increments until those get programmed.

At least, this is my theory on cracking this one!

Bart

Hello Bart,

I just watched Dave Shenkman's tutorial DVD. Very informative, and great presentation. If you have not seen it, I'm sure he will see that you get one. Dave is the proprieter of the Kite Connection in California.

I am going to slow down a little, and just try to focus on the basics. Try to crawl berore I walk so to speak.

That looks like what you are doing. Patience will pay off.

Have a good weekend!

Adam

Edited by Adam
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I tried that crawl before walking thing and found I got bored too easy! kid_content.gif

Now I just try all manner of "stuff" because sometimes it leads to discoveries that puzzled me on something else. Sort of the same way as I tried some wild over control a few times to see what the kite did. That was interesting too and led to figuring how how to do an inverted slide.

Hmmm, jack-of-all-trades and master of none????

I do set out to always practice basic stuff each time though. I divide my time between flying around enjoying what I can do and flying around enjoying what I am working on at the moment.

Everyone, though, should have fun doing it in whatever manner they enjoy.

Bart

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One common thread to all this: everyone seems to describe moving handles in order to make the right wing go up or the left wing go up (or down in either case).

Try this instead: think of opposite/differential motions of the handles (left brake out - right brake in) as causing rotation. Clockwise is clockwise whether inverted or not. The kite is not turning right or left, but clockwise or counterclockwise.

Once you get the idea that the in-out tilt (differential; in relation to each other) of the handles controls rotation; and the in-out tilt (common; together) controls motion towards and away from the leading edge, it becomes much more easy to overlay different amounts of differential and common tilt to control the kite. I would practice hovering in all positions before doing ANY forward flying, much less backward flying.

Once you have practiced that, straight down wind, until it becomes automatic, then begin moving your hands forward and back in relation to each other to make the kite slide sideways (or maintain height when on end).

(Different control motions, but this view -- CW/CCW -- of kite motion can help on dual line kits as well. How many times have you seen a novice 2-liner dive a kite into the ground instead of pulling back into the sky and then hear, "Well, I tried to turn it to my right." When teaching beginners I try to never say the words left or right. When talking about the kite I use CW and CCW; when referring to the hands I point to or tap the appropriate hand or shoulder.)

As a creed to believe in, I say, "Right and left are the mortal enemies of sport kite flyers!"

Edited by --Pete
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That's brilliant Pete. I managed to get a friend to try my Rev for 60 seconds on the weekend and he had instant issue with the idea of left and right when he was driving it towards the ground. Thankfully he understood "thumbs forward" before it came in too hard.

I'm going to try the CW and CCW (or ACW as we were doing at Long Beach to confuse some of us a bit more) and see if that helps him. That is help him if he will try it again.

Bart

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