B series handle tuning

[streamhawk]

I'm flying the B standard, looking to get the vent later on. I understand the basic of handle tuning, closer to the handle on top more lift, father out more reverse and brake. I notice on the DVD John mentions a general setting of fourth knot from the end on the top and last knot out on the bottom. But from reading through the posts, it sounds like a preference for the top is third knot from the end and close to the handle knot for the bottom. So....two questions, what is the general preference for handle setup you all have on the B, and the second, I'm looking for a loose thumbnail guide for handle setup, depending on wind or other variables. I do know personal preference probably is the rule, but until I have that experience, a loose guide would be very beneficial to a beginner, thanks.

Bill

[sailor99]

There is no right answer! Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Mr B also says experiment to find what tickles your fancy. I personally like quite a lot of brake so I fly two or three knots from the end on the top and on the first from the end on the bottom. BUT.... In higher winds I let the top right out the end, and in really high wind I have an extra knot on the bottom attachments on the bridle so that I can get even more brake. Maybe I am just cautious - I am known for my moderate, considered and introverted flying (that comments for you Choccy and Groz ). Other people I fly with seem to fly with one or two knots of extra tension on the top line.

So, how to disassemble all that contradictory information and say something useful to you. May I suggest, on a 'normal' wind day, you start one knot from the end on the bottom and don't bother changing it. Then start with 3 knots from the end on the top. See how you go for half an hour. Then let the top out to two from the end - whats the difference, and do you enjoy it? Then bring it into the 4th from the end - is that better or worse? That way you will find out your preference. But don't stop experimenting there - on different days, with different winds, and being in a different mood you will prefer other settings. And it doesn't stop there! You can also start experimenting with different rod combinations. And there's more!! Once you get your vented you can try different rods, on different kits, with different handle settings!!!

And that is the joy of revs. Nothing is right, nothing wrong. Don't think of it as not knowing what is best because of lack of experience. Think of it like having a whole wardrobe of different kites at your disposal. Just take out the combination of shirt, socks and trousers that takes your fancy on the day. All you need to understand is that lighter rods, and tighter top lines give you more lift and power. More brake and looser top lines tends to give you more precision. Venting makes the kite more forgiving and, in a high wind, less of a handful. Selection the combination of lift, response, accuracy and forgivingness is up to you!

[johnnmitchell]

I'm flying the B standard, looking to get the vent later on. I understand the basic of handle tuning, closer to the handle on top more lift, father out more reverse and brake. I notice on the DVD John mentions a general setting of fourth knot from the end on the top and last knot out on the bottom. But from reading through the posts, it sounds like a preference for the top is third knot from the end and close to the handle knot for the bottom. So....two questions, what is the general preference for handle setup you all have on the B, and the second, I'm looking for a loose thumbnail guide for handle setup, depending on wind or other variables. I do know personal preference probably is the rule, but until I have that experience, a loose guide would be very beneficial to a beginner, thanks.

Bill

I would suggest that you try various setting until you find the setting most comfortable to you and the REV you are flying. You might first search for the setting that allows you to handle the REV well with hands in the middle of the rubber grip. That is usually even pull on the upper and lower lines.

Keep in mind, that these settings will change with line stretch, so keep an eye on you line lengths by checking them regularly. High end lines such as Shanti and Laser Pro won't need much change where low end cheap spectra might require daily or hourly changes.

You will also find that you will prefer different settings per the REV you are flying. e.g. REV I to REV 1.5.

For trick flying you might find you want the lower lines shorter, maybe not.

I have even found myself changing the settings for the different types of rods. e.g. race to profs to UL.

It is all a personal feeling thing.

[streamhawk]

thanx Sailor! Not really looking for a right answer, just a general guideline. I've been flying fourth knot from the end on top, at the end on the bottom, and am getting ready to experiment, I'm just curious what most people's preference is in general and maybe why. "Wardrobe", good analogy! Exactly why I picked the B series in the first place, very versatile.

I did get to fly Ben's vent with race rods and a Koch vent in Tulsa, both pretty sweet in the winds we were in. Unfortunately, I didn't think to look to see where the handle tuning was set on each. Appreciate the quick reply!

Bill

[streamhawk]

John, I'm using LPG for lines, seemed to be the way to go, 90#x90'. Right now I'm just using the 3 wrap frame, don't want to break anything, just yet anyway. Looks like experimentation is the way to go. I'll try lowering my grip a tad to the middle and see what that yields for me, for now I've been thumb on top, index finger right above the foam. Thanks for the advice!

Bill

[sailor99]

Keep the thumb on top except in high winds - I find it gives you more precise control. Use Johns method for balancing the lines

[steveb]

It's sort of like guitar straps- some guys play it practically under their chin, some have the guitar hanging down to their knees.

Whatever works for you and is most comfortable is what's "right".

Check out how many different hand positions these guys have, yet somehow we all fly together.

[streamhawk]

that's an enlightening image there Steve, btw, which one are you? Gotta love those flowered shorts now, don'tcha? I know I do. Thanks for the visual, for the hand grips and all I mean.

Bill

[steveb]

that's an enlightening image there Steve, btw, which one are you?

I'm usually too busy watching my spacing to notice the other guys' hand positions- I was kind of surprised how many different ways we hold the handles.

I'm the fat guy on the far right with the white Tilley Hat.

I injured my shoulders power kiting and now find it most comfortable to keep my hands down by my hips.

[sailor99]

That's not fat Steve!!!!!! You have just realised the wisdom of investing in a beer barrel rather than a six pack.

[Choccy]

Maybe I am just cautious - I am known for my moderate, considered and introverted flying (that comments for you Choccy and Groz ).

Thanks for that Sailor... "introverted flying"

Our floopy weather conditions mean that we get to experiment a lot with our handle settings!

At the Weymouth kite festival (on the south coast of UK), we were given some advice.

The wind had dropped to bearly nothing. I was struggling to launch the kite (ok so it was my vented at the time).

I couldn't be bothered to set up the standard sail.... *tsk*

I had the handle setting knot nearest my hands, and was 'educated' in the delightful ways of physics of the kite.

With the lines tied all the way at the top, the kite will not get the amount of lift as you'd expect.

As the wind just "sheets" through rather than applying lift. (See Stephen I was paying attention )

So even on a light wind day it should be possible with the correct sail/kite to gain lift from the upper middle handle settings.

Again it is all about preference.

Personally I prefer not to fly at all when the wind is too extreme: too light or too strong.

Steve: that's not fat... you have invested in a wee flagon of ale not a keg/barrel.

[Jonesey]

Thanks for that Sailor... "introverted flying"

Our floopy weather conditions mean that we get to experiment a lot with our handle settings!

As the wind just "sheets" through rather than applying lift. (See Stephen I was paying attention )

Floopy? 'Sheets' through?? I'm a sailor and thought we had some strange terminology but you kite flyers have a language all your own!

And Steve, NO thats not fat, I too think that bell bottom shirts are way overdue for a comeback

Personally I havent got to the stage where I can afford to be selective with the weather if I get a window of opportunity I'm gone... so its good to hear all these ideas about how to change gears to suit the conditions.. must try and experiment more.

[KiteLife]

The B-Series top leaders are approx 7", I would always be flying on the last knot, and wanting one more.

==

On my handles (i.e. iQuad team handles)... I fly with 8" top leaders, and 2" bottom pigtails.

Settings, I'm usually on the last or second to last knot (furthest from the handle) on the top, and last knot on the bottom (out fully).

However, having so much brake in your kite can make it seem impossible to fly without a little personal instruction.

With some accumulated training, you'd get a good sense of why most of my boys on iQuad now prefer these settings.

[REVflyer]

I guess I do everything quad-related backwards!

I only adjust the bottom leaders, my leader line is much thinner than the stock dacron and the tops have no knots except the single one furthest out, no sleeving either. This way I'm less likely to tangle a line when doing 3D moves or trick flying.

I also fly with my hands "down low", closer to my waist compared to many other pilots.

The whole I-Quad team thing, (slow & precise) is fun with a big group, but way too slow for my personal enjoyment as style of flight to practice. I want the kite to dance with me, NOT for me. I run, throw, stomp and fling, my kites have to do the same!

Anything to reduce a tangling opportunity, I'm on about sixty feet of line-length (or less!) almost always. We seldom have ANY wind when I go to fly locally.

[KiteLife]

The "slow and precise" may be true of iQuad's team flying...

Not to argue in any way, but we also elicit quite a bit of speed and snap out of the kites when flying solo on these settings.

Axels, flic flacs, 3D, you name it, all still on the menu... And we also fly with our hands low.

Sounds like the end result is very similar, but with different methodology in the settings.

Paul flies with shorter top lines than us (less brake), but generally uses MUCH longer handles to compensate.

Conversely, we've balanced our tuning so that the regular 13" handles provide us with much of the same performance, after adjusting our technique.

[streamhawk]

ok, I'm getting a good idea on adjusting the top lines, but I think I'm not understanding adjusting the bottom two knots. Is the two positions mostly for brakes, or am I missing something? What does the kite do when I come in closer to the handle? Should I mostly set it and forget it, or does adjusting the bottom go along with coming in or letting out on the top knots??? Maybe I'm confusing myself here.

Bill

[cerfvoliste]

John -

I have replaced the top line on my 13 inch handles with the 8 inch knoted line, but the bottom is still they way it came from Revolution, i.e. 4 inch with one knot at the end. I see you mention 2 inches on the Bottom.

When updating stock 13 inch handles would your advice be to shorten up the bottom line as well as adding the adjustable top line?

:confused!:

Rx

[KiteLife]

Ya, for my use, I'd tie another knot between the handle and the existing knot... Then snip and melt the ends there.

Or, make something comparable using the same material as was used on the top, for aesthetics... I like black myself.

[KiteLife]

I think Paul mainly puts the adjustments on the bottom of his handles so the knots don't snag up on each other, etc.

My goal is always to fly accurately, both with kite and hands, so snags are rarely a problem for me.

Here's the skinny... No matter how you fly, the top lines are slightly or significantly longer on a Rev, when set up correctly.

Since the brake lines are naturally under less tension at any given moment, I'd rather have the weight of the adjustable knots on the top lines (which are held more taut)... This also leaves no need for additional adjustments on the bottom.

I never travel more than 3 knots in my settings... Most of it is 1 knot change between vented and standard Revs, or occasionally based on wind quality (not speed).

[streamhawk]

hey thanks John, that's the general info I'm looking for, appreciate that. Can I assume you could put the bottom in either of the two positions, but really pretty much all the tuning is on top?

Bill

[KiteLife]

For the style we use, yes.

The bottom leaders on B-Series handles typically have 2 knots...

We use the one at the very end, and the inner knot only if there is something askew with the lines and we need that extra little bit, like on new lines.

Your regular knot position will change... Lines (especially the top) stretch over time, effectively moving your sweet spot.

We use LaserPro Gold... 50#, 90# and 150#, in various lengths (30', 60', 90' and 120').

[streamhawk]

For the style we use, yes.

ok, think I've got it now, at least...this much of it. Getting a repeatable decent hover, time will tell. Thanks again!

Bill

[KiteLife]

Just getting a taste of a smooth hover with an experienced pilot will do wonders...

If you ever share a field with iQuad, don't hesitate to come over, happy to share anything we know.

FYI, the only reason I suggest the 3rd or 4th knot on the DVD is because in most cases, I won't have any one-on-one time teaching the pilot, and it seems easiest to fly with the top lines shortened up (like the Rev settings most have used for years)... With 20-30 minutes of hands on training, the ease and benefits of using additional brake becomes clear.

[streamhawk]

makes sense, glad you cleared that up John, I would have probably asked that later on after thinking about it. Think next trip out I'll drop down the the third knot for awhile and see what I think since I've been on the 4th one, then go from there.

Bill

[KiteLife]

Right on.

Just remember, the more brake you put in, the less you can afford to lose tension on the lines (creating a stall).

It's not about having to back up all the time though, it's about pull and release, at the right times.

Leading edge is pointing upward at all, you draw back... The leading edge is pointed down at all, you step in and gain back that space.

Nearly all of my teammates struggled with this initially, but again, the benefits become clear once you have an understanding of the dynamic.

To be quite frank, this is much of the reason for Revolution's recent "second coming"...

A whole new way of handling the kite, compared to what's been taught for years.

[streamhawk]

Leading edge is pointing upward at all, you draw back... The leading edge is pointed down at all, you step in and gain back that space.

Nearly all of my teammates struggled with this initially, but again, the benefits become clear once you have an understanding of the dynamic.

wait, I think you lost me. Do you mean by upward and down the leading edge is angled away from you or angled toward you...the rest I get...I think, keeping it in a checked or neutral position...I think.

Bill