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      Greetings, we've received notice of a few forum members soliciting other users for specifications on some of the Revolution kites... Please be advised, any such confirmed activity will result in immediate suspension of forum privileges. Making your own Rev style kite for artisitic purposes is admirable, but directly copying the patterns in use will not be encouraged here.
monkey

Super Spider! And more.

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Hey all, just as a quick note, Joe graciously let me get my hands on the new VERY vented Reflex (tentatively called the Super Spider Web at this point) while we were down at Rich Comras's memorial party. This kite should be available pretty soon and damn, it flew well. It kept up to any other very vented kite out there and pull wise, it's roughly about the same amount of pull as the XTRA vent. I'll get some pictures and a better review soon but, Joe and I also talked about a mid vent Reflex as well!  I sent Joe back with a few tweaks to this new kite, so, hopefully it will ready to go soon!  Quite a handful of people took it for a fly and they loved it.

 

Other things on the go over the next while, We're going to redo the Rev store site entirely over the next few weeks, and at the same time, we will roll the forum back over to the same site. An unfortunate bunch of missteps caused the separation last year and I am looking to fix this. The forum URL will change slightly to match the .com site however, that will be it as far as the forum goes. (I may undertake to dress the place up a little bit too!)

thanks all!

 

IMG_3397.JPG

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We should have these in stock pretty quick.  Can't wait to get one out for myself. :)  Very good looking kite!

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Stepped out on the front porch of the office this afternoon and the wind was whistling through the railing!  I have been wondering what might become available in the extra vent type category.  I really like the look of this new kite & hope to be flying one soon.  Today would have been a good day to fly such a kite here in the mountain valleys of western Virginia.  Winds were from the west at 15 to 20 mph with gusts much higher mid afternoon today.  SHBKF

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Can the spider web reinforcements be tied into the leading edge sleeve so there isn't such a long strip of mesh without reinforcement? I seems like the mesh is the weakest link; once a tear starts, it keeps going even with super gluing.

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17 hours ago, lylenc said:

Can the spider web reinforcements be tied into the leading edge sleeve so there isn't such a long strip of mesh without reinforcement? I seems like the mesh is the weakest link; once a tear starts, it keeps going even with super gluing.

Looks to be the only thing missing are those "fold strips" right where you bend the kite to wrap it up.

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On 3/12/2017 at 0:26 PM, lylenc said:

Can the spider web reinforcements be tied into the leading edge sleeve so there isn't such a long strip of mesh without reinforcement? I seems like the mesh is the weakest link; once a tear starts, it keeps going even with super gluing.

You know, that's an excellent idea, I'm going to pass that along. Done, mocked up a quick idea and sent it into Dave, Joe and Lolly for comments.

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The re-working of the site and integration of this forum is good news...

The development of the reflex is very interesting but a bit graphically challenging.  Somehow the idea of setting a specific arrangement of sail panels is 'a bit interesting' historically <grins>

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1 hour ago, Felix said:

The re-working of the site and integration of this forum is good news...

The development of the reflex is very interesting but a bit graphically challenging.  Somehow the idea of setting a specific arrangement of sail panels is 'a bit interesting' historically <grins>

I think the arrangement I came up with for a "mid vent" version of the kite will work out quite nicely. We'll find out shortly!

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Sure would be nice if a full set of 5 was being made -- standard, mid, full, extra and zen -- and a full-set discount and custom colors were available. Ummmm, jus' thinkin', ya know.... 

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The bigger original Reflex is the Zen replacement. Got to fly one last year at an early festival. In super light winds - it more than held it's own with my SUL.

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4 hours ago, portlandflyer said:

The bigger original Reflex is the Zen replacement. Got to fly one last year at an early festival. In super light winds - it more than held it's own with my SUL.

Yes it is. Anything in a 1.0 size is the same size as the Zen. Does it have the same panel layout as the Spider? No. Therefore, not eligible to be a member of the Spider set.

Oops, now that I look at my other post, I realize that I did not make it clear that I was referring to the Spider, not the Reflex. Of course, with a soup can and a soldering iron I can make the additional vented models.

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The original Reflex is the Zen's replacement, but not as big. It is between the Zen (Rev 1) and a 1.5 in size. Almost a Rev 1.25!! Had unique rods too, that only fit that sail. I'm sure a combo of Rev 1 and Rev 1.5 rods would have made it close for the LE, not sure if anything would be equivalent in any other series!

From what I gather from the rumor mill  - it sounds like the smaller Reflex 1.5 will be made in at least 3 versions - std, vtd, x/v. Wind ranges are supposed to be bigger, so maybe fewer sails to cover wind conditions? 

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Maybe stating the obvious but you can always buy Rev 1 tubes & trim them to any shorter length you might wish them to become for any other Rev that could make use of that particular wrap.  The end cap issues could easily be overcome with modified ends or swapped out pieces on some kites if needed.  The Speed & Power series have their own separate issues though.  I have pondered using the famous SLE tubes for verticals.  They would be pretty tough but would undoubtedly change feel & balance a bit.

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You can trim them down, but you want to be careful how you do that.  The ends of the Rev rods are reinforced with added carbon to help prevent them from cracking where the ferule goes.  If you trim them, you would want to trim ONE end only, and make sure that the trimmed ends is on the cap end of the leading edge so that the reinforced ends is towards the center where the ferules are.  The verticals shouldn't matter as much.

The Reflex XX and the Reflex RX uses a brand new designed leading edge (5/16").  This is not the older SLE rods but slightly smaller in diameter but larger than the normal 1/4" rods.  Because of this new size, these rods are pretty exclusive and won't interchange with the others.  You can't put in a 1/4" leading edge because the newly designed internal end caps will not fit.  The new Revolution Classic uses the same rods normal rods as the other 1.5 series kites but does have the new Reflex Technology design, so the Reflex rods are different, but you can replace those with the older verticals and the kite now is just like the older models without the Reflex Tech. Reflex Verticals are the same rods as usual but have the Reflex spring tension and Velcro button installed on them.

We have all the Rev rods in stock, all wraps, models and sizes. 

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I agree that modifying parts have issues that may be problematic.  Original equipment manufacturer, sometimes called OEM, parts are always the first & best choice to maintain your kites original performance characteristics.  Modifications & adaptions take you into a different realm.  Field repairs to keep flying can lead to some interesting thoughts.  SHBKF 

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On 3/18/2017 at 8:02 PM, awindofchange said:

The Reflex XX and the Reflex RX uses a brand new designed leading edge (5/16").  ...larger than the normal 1/4" rods.  Because of this new size, these rods are pretty exclusive and won't interchange with the others.

I know one person that returned their original Reflex because the frames weren't interchangeable.. To be honest, that held a lot of weight in some of my personal buying and selling decisions also.. I like having options and tons of options..With the prior models you'd get two frames and even the ability to double up for strength when needed. I have full complements of frames for the majority of my sails.. I can't imagine not personally preserving that interchangeability..

I sure many will disagree with me but that's my two cents... Like Dayhiker, I tend to modify and mix to meet my needs at any given time.. For instance, I had one spar that wanted to split. I glued a short solid ferrule in the end and continue to fly with it. Because I fly in high winds often, I'll frequently use a 4 wrap center with Green Race to finish out the kite.. Gives me back much of the stiffness I want while giving me the absolute strength of the green race. Best of both worlds. 

Paul LeMasters takes travel frames and makes some real Leading Edge Frankenstien mixes sometimes but you can't question his motives or his results. He actually isolates where he wants his Leading edge to flex very well..

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if a six piece travel frame leading edge breaks it's only a half of a full sized tube that needs to replaced, you can slap a new one in within a stopwatch's single tick of time.  

Adhere the two halves together with vinyl electrical tape so it folds and assembles normally just like a stocker 3 piece, unless you're traveling.

Want to add some mass, so it tricks better?  Well you can putz with the framing for this objective as well

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The Reflex is a totally new design of kite, it is larger than the 1.5 series but not as big as the Rev 1.  For this reason Revolution created a new frame for it because none of the others would be interchangeable.  The frame is a new design with ultra high strength carbon that is also ultra light.   If you want to have interchangeability, you can get the Revolution Classic model which is the same 1.5 size as all the previous models.  It does come with the Reflex Technology which is the Reflex spring assembly on the two verticals, but the leading edge and the verticals are the same size just as they have always been.  If you do change out the Reflex Verticals, you end up with the same flying kite as the original 1.5 / EXP / New York Minute / B-Series kites.  What is awesome is that you can now have the Reflex verticals which gives a huge increase in performance, especially in light winds and it can also be launched from the dreaded dead launch position (Belly down, leading edge towards you).

So Revolution did keep the interchangeability with the previous models by bringing out the Classic.  The Reflex XS and XX are different sized which is why they have their own frames.

Hope that helps clear some of that up.

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I had a Reflex. Bought one early on and flew it for a full season almost.. Mine was one of the first ones that Paul flew at ODSKC..  Personally,  I like my catch and throw far too much to commit to the Reflex design..  I ended up selling the Reflex because it didn't fit my flying style. It was a fun kite but just not for me.

Not against change but I do like my current quiver.. I don't think I'll ever have a Classic. I don't care for the springs. Can't see buying a technology I'll not use.. I prefer the B Series that actually came with 2 frames instead of an option that only has an extra spar or two. The Extra frame allowed me to convert the SLE kites I have to normal Leading edges. The Extra LE was a big deal to me.. Can't see buying a spring technology I'll not use.. I commend Rev on continuing the innovation efforts.. This particular one (Reflex Springs) doesn't have enough advantages for me to justify what I feel I have to give up to use it.. The spider design looks cool enough though..

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James Fletcher (fletch) can catch the 1.5 Reflex, (reliably) but the original one just won't fall out of the sky, regardless of your activities on the handles, even flight upwind behind you head is possible!  You catch that model differently too, he uses the bottom lines to unsheathe it from the airflow and it takes a long time to get to him (like timed with a sundial not a stop-watch, that long).  You don't sprint to catch it, no you can turn a couple of cartwheel flips and then casually intersect the flight path at your own discretion, overhead, waist-high, or "safe at second base" sliding (underneath at the last possible moment).

I don't have more than a few minutes on the newest Classic Reflex (Lisa Willoughby had one at SPI) but it uses the normal sized tubes/frame and the platform shape we all know so well.  The reflex mechanism adds a float like you have ten thousand hours of no-wind experiences to rely upon.  Doesn't have any impact once a well powered flight is established in full powered winds.

Different just means learning all over again, like the difference between the indoor and B-series SUL.  Hey, they're both quads, some techniques transfer over and some are entirely new.  You may not like it first, it might have to grow on you.  Can you adapt to change?  I like the reflex models better than the indoor Rev.  Some are completely against change, even ME!  I couldn't ever wrap my flying around a Decca or the indoor Rev, but I have owned both and given 'em each a solid try.  Didn't click so dumped 'em when the opportunity presented itself.

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Ok, so you can catch it almost consistently. Can one also throw it almost consistently, or does it not throw well? What's the point of catching it if you have to walk it back out?

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Hi Mark,

depending on the lengths of the strings involved YES it can be thrown.  With sissy sticks on the back it doesn't have to go all the way out either.  Part way and it sits up waiting for you to walk out the rest of the slack on the ground. (we laugh and say "we meant to do that"

The kite that throws extremely well is a full sail SUL w/the SLE tubes, it's like a javelin!

Compromise is the name the game though,.. a nice float is a light weight frame (easier to catch, ... also add in a curved leading edge surface, like the Speed Series, curved up OVER the top, not just diverted left to right (from the center), it's done by manipulating the knots and forcing the curvature into the leading edge sleeve.

A nice throw requires MASS, the more mass the farther it can travel all by itself after initial activation of the technique.

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The furthest I successfully throw is 50' with my Zen, everything else kinda poops out after that length! Easier on 30' with just about anything else, (my Zen doesn't like shorter than 50'), and mostly use it for my street gear.

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practice with the Zen off of the lines, the objective is to predict and then follow that visualized path to the flight's completion.  You want the kite to penetrate the wind, like a frisbee, not just ride along from your energy applied at release.  It needs to curve around during the throw part and not the gliding part, so the leading edge is leading and the rest of the kite is just following along for most of the way.  It should go acres if done properly,... again though, more mass makes it easier to throw FARther.  So maybe you don't have to sprint backwards?

Take a couple of steps like throwing a javelin, you are adding energy FREE with motion applied and haven't even used your upper torso yet!

when trying to catch, don't fly all the way to the top and yank straight down, instead work on 2/3rds or 3/4ters of height and reach out as far as possible w/o touching the bare spectra.  Yank in a smooth application of power, like underwater, a sharp abrupt tug isn't as successful.  Be directly square down wind and overhead is also centered for the catch.

Try to throw towards the opposite side, i'm a lefty so I pitch it towards to right lower corner of the wind window.  Push both thumbs forward on the hand holding both handles, so the kite squares up and finishes hovering inverted an inch above the ground.

I can throw a hundred feet on the Zen (if perfect technique & sprinting backwards) and catch 120s (not all the way to sitting down though, I'll have to move forward some)

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