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Super Sixteen


Felix

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Now that the animated basics are completed, staggering the timing won't be much extra work.

Would you like to do that? If so what might be your suggestions.

The stop interval is not a problem as long as the fliers recognise the intent!

Felix

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OK, I guess that we do not go there... I was thinking that you might mean the 'stop' moment with half the kites in a 'leading edge up' moment.

Felix

Hi Felix,

I think that you have to at least go through there in doing your working with phantoms Grand Swing Thru. Half way through each Trade (180 two kite pinwheel or whatever you know it as) each 2x4 will have to become a 1x8. In the 4x4 matrix that you star with there will be a conversion to a 2x8 then a 4x4, then whne the phantoms come in a 3x8 finally a 6x4. The 3x8 will consist of two 1x8 formations with 4 phantoms and 4 real kites and one 1x8 formation of 8 real kites.

Under normal conditions what is the limit of kites on a vertical orientation tip to tip? I expect the opportunities for 16 fliers are not that common so the need for some standardisation is required so that everything can be quickly conveyed.

I really do hope that something can be transferred from the square dance world that I know. We went through the standardisation stage in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that there might be more mileage working with 8 kites in a 4x4 matrix with 8 phantoms that are used when required. I will try and spend some time thinking about possibilities that do not turn lines into a rats nest.

Thinking about your "Sprocket figure" as well as it being an asymmetric exchange the diamond it is also very similar to part of a traditional dance Venus and Mars where you have right and left hand stars that cross over and cross back eventually leading to a promenade which I think you would call a 2x2 pinwheel? I need to have another look at the matrix/grid flying manual.

Cheers

Stephen

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Hi Felix,

I think that you have to at least go through there in doing your working with phantoms Grand Swing Thru. Half way through each Trade (180 two kite pinwheel or whatever you know it as) each 2x4 will have to become a 1x8. In the 4x4 matrix that you start with there will be a conversion to a 2x8 then a 4x4, then when the phantoms come in a 3x8 finally a 6x4. The 3x8 will consist of two 1x8 formations with 4 phantoms and 4 real kites and one 1x8 formation of 8 real kites.

Under normal conditions what is the limit of kites on a vertical orientation tip to tip? I expect the opportunities for 16 fliers are not that common so the need for some standardisation is required so that everything can be quickly conveyed.

I really do hope that something can be transferred from the square dance world that I know. We went through the standardisation stage in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that there might be more mileage working with 8 kites in a 4x4 matrix with 8 phantoms that are used when required. I will try and spend some time thinking about possibilities that do not turn lines into a rats nest.

Thinking about your "Sprocket figure" as well as it being an asymmetric exchange the diamond it is also very similar to part of a traditional dance Venus and Mars where you have right and left hand stars that cross over and cross back eventually leading to a promenade which I think you would call a 2x2 pinwheel? I need to have another look at the matrix/grid flying manual.

Cheers

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

The 8 kites vertically is not an issue though it is approaching the practical limit. John was concerned about wing tip hits but that should not be a problem for 'experienced' fliers.

Quite a few of the 'figures' that are being flown are already global in that teams all around the world use them in their routines. The idea for the Super Sixteen is to explore what becomes possible with a large team of 'experienced' fliers.

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I am certainly looking forward to seeing what you can come up with in translating the figures that you know into something that we can fly.

Felix

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John,

Very cool; very smooth animation.

Just out of curiosity, why does the background drift back and forth?

It is suppose to give the effect of the clouds moving however I have not perfected this yet.

I have tried going only one direction, but then there is a distinctive jump when it moves from finish to start.

I am still working on other ideas. Someday I will have it where I like it.

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At present I am working on numbering each part of the maneuver, thus completing the Bigot.

When that is done I will shift back to the Diamond as my project for next week.

The following week, I plan finishing up the Wiper, or what ever David called it.

Then each week for the next few months I will work on another one each week.

At least I will try to do it, depending on my other work.

What I need for these next figures are:

1. the name of the figure, for cataloging properly.

2. a sketch or drawing of the figure with some explanation text. Just scan it and email it to me.

The priority will be set on a first come first served basis.

Week 1 - Bigot

Week 2 - Diamond

Week 3 - Wiper, or what ever David called it.

Week 4 open

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Wonderfull animation John, runs well here. The previous ones were slow with me.

The Bigot would look good in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Even better if the directions were switched at the end of routine?

The difference is that the first was an animated gif file. The second being a .swf file running from .html code.

I'll try to keep your thought in mind to add in later on. I just want to add numbers to the Bigot then I am going to refine the Diamond.

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Re: oscillating background

It is suppose to give the effect of the clouds moving however I have not perfected this yet.

I have tried going only one direction, but then there is a distinctive jump when it moves from finish to start.

I am still working on other ideas. Someday I will have it where I like it.

Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)

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Re: oscillating background

Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)

<grins> And then we get to fly the kites...

The visualisations are fantastic. The practicalities are somewhat demanding. I'm looking forward to the next opportunity to fly 16.

Felix

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Re: oscillating background

Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)

Layers, no problem. I can create as many as I want.

The primary problem is to create the precise background. It would be a lot of time. The programs used are Adobe Illustrator CS5 and and Flash CS5 for the vector stuff and Photoshop CS5 for the pixel(raster) stuff. The background is the only raster.

I think a complete fade out to black at the end and a complete fade in at the start from black would be the easiest to accomplish. The thought of 50% gray or 100% white is also being considered.

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At present I am working on numbering each part of the maneuver, thus completing the Bigot.

When that is done I will shift back to the Diamond as my project for next week.

The following week, I plan finishing up the Wiper, or what ever David called it.

Then each week for the next few months I will work on another one each week.

At least I will try to do it, depending on my other work.

What I need for these next figures are:

1. the name of the figure, for cataloging properly.

2. a sketch or drawing of the figure with some explanation text. Just scan it and email it to me.

The priority will be set on a first come first served basis.

Week 1 - Bigot

Week 2 - Diamond

Week 3 - Wiper, or what ever David called it.

Week 4 open

I am granting Felix the privilege of changing priorities when he feels it is appropriate.

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The Bigot animation has been updated with numbers for the sequences.

There is also a name added along with Start and End.

The background is also animated differently.

The latest version is at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/rev_animation/bigot_v07o-play.html

All older versions have been deleted.

I am now moving on to the next animation "Diamond" where I will added in the extra features of the Bigot animation.

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Dont know what others think. I think it looks great witout trying to make the clouds move.

It would mean more work, and in my opinion distract from the image.

The clouds and ground look great as they are.

The only way to make it look better in my opinin (FWIW) is to make it loop till the stop button is clicked. The end of loop till it re-sets itself is a bit distracting.

But then hey, who am I to complain. Great job John.

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Looks like things are moving in the right direction for a Super Sixteen routine.I am soooooooo looking forward to the new season,to see the routine or perhaps even have a go myself.I must say the animations being put together are great,big shout out to John.The animations make things look so much easier than trying to picture the moves in my head,while reading what to do.I will definately be keeping an eye on this thread,to see what progresses

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The priority will be set on a first come first served basis.

Week 1 - Bigot

Week 2 - Diamond

Week 3 - Wiper, or what ever David called it.

Week 4 open

<snip>

I am granting Felix the privilege of changing priorities when he feels it is appropriate.

Thanks John but I would prefer to go along with the consensus, (whatever turns up) and most importantly what interests you. <grins>

Bigot and Diamond have not been flown yet. The Radar as David prefers to call it, has. There are a number of moves which will be familiar to everyone who had been involved in the grid format so far such as concentric circles, bursts and threads. There are some 16 grid 4 x 4 rotations that could be usefully documented that were flown at the press preview at Bristol 2008 as I recall.

The Threads to rotations or 'dosey do's' could be good and I have it in mind that there may be a horizontal to vertical thread switch which should be pinned down.

The 'Parallel 360' rolls are on my agenda as well.

I would really hope that others will contribute suggestions.

Felix

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I think some thought need's to be given into how the initial grid is formed, the starting grid position need's to be formed quickly and without a lot of fidgiting going on while people get into position, my intial thought would be to have all the kites in a line across the arena and to then have column's of four radar up to vertical while at the same time the flyers walk backwards to their position on the ground, maybe the formation of the grid could be the start of the routine, just a thought.

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I think some thought need's to be given into how the initial grid is formed, the starting grid position need's to be formed quickly and without a lot of fidgiting going on while people get into position, my intial thought would be to have all the kites in a line across the arena and to then have column's of four radar up to vertical while at the same time the flyers walk backwards to their position on the ground, maybe the formation of the grid could be the start of the routine, just a thought.

That is certainly part of what is being considered. The Long Beach 'get in' for 64 fliers involved two lines of 32 kites. 16 is very straight forward by comparison.

I would expect the initial launch to be part of the performance, similarly the final landing.

Thanks for your thoughts

Felix

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