johnnmitchell Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 JohnWhat language were they using when you were in the mega fly at Berck? Jim I was there photographing. I think it was Frenglish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I was there photographing.I think it was Frenglish. I took lots of photos. You will find Berck 2006 on my web site at: http://home.arcor.de/johnnmitchell/3-Photo...2006/index.html The most vivid photos are on Day 2. There are more on Day 8, 9 and 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Hi, this is Hans from Team4Fun, when Team4Fun started back in 2004 our calls were all in german. After our first visit to Berck sur Mer and Oostende/Belgium, which festivals are well known for their quadline megateams we noticed that it was difficult to switch from the german calls to the english calls. From that time Stefan, our team-leader, decided to do all the calls in english, also during the festivals where only Team4Fun flies. We noticed the advantage during the next festivals when flying together with international teams. We didn't have any difficulties with the communications when Philippe from Team FLIC or Stephen from The Flying Squad were the megateam-leaders. During the Cervia/Italy festival last month we invited some italian pilots to join us. Until then they only flew with italian calls so there were some misunderstandings during some moves I recommend all the non-english speaking teams to make their calls exclusively in english, even during their national festivals. Good winds, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 When we did the mega fly in Berck, Stephen Hoath was translating the French calls into English for our part of the group (6+ pilots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elalmadelpiloto Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Hi Kites- mates: About Standad Calls Commands: Mike please, I think that it could be good include in your manual a Summary "How to Calls Commands for English people". You know, the same terms for all, also is easy not only for translation of the Spanish Version; also on going to work in the same way for "Spanish terms" by our people. I think that it works by pilosts as technical terms or professional. Thanks to all and good winds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm agreeable to that idea... While it's likely that English will often be the common usage, I don't mind learning a little Spanish just in case if it's presented to me in a good format. Also, VERY IMPORTANT... Phonetic spellings would be invaluable, so we know the sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdilucca Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm agreeable to that idea... While it's likely that English will often be the common usage, I don't mind learning a little Spanish just in case if it's presented to me in a good format. Also, VERY IMPORTANT... Phonetic spellings would be invaluable, so we know the sounds. Si senior!!! Muchos saludos Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernan Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I stopped counting countries long ago. I have been to quite a number. I have never been in the contents South America or Africa.That is very dependent on who you are dealing with. If it is for business, at a hotel or a restaurant, English is prevalent. When it comes down to the local people which tourist don't deal that often with it varies dramatically. In Spain most often French will be their second language, probably because they border France. However, that is not totally correct because in addition to speaking Castellion(proper Spanish), they will speak their local language such as Catalan, Basque, Valencian, and etc. In Southern France, you will find that probably the most popular second language is Spanish. Italy is a special case and they have their local languages that in some cases are far from the proper Italian. There are areas were German prevails as a second language and in one area where is officially the second language. Their are other areas where French prevails as the second language. Tourism also tends push which second language prevails. However a substantial number of Italians speak English and quite well at that. I think there should be manuals in at least English, French, Japanese and Spanish with all command names in English. Internationally recognized terms should be 90, 180, 360, left, right, up, down and face(or leading edge). Maybe some more to come. Totally in agreement with johnn mitchell, in the Basque country, we spoke aside from Spanish, Basque. The Spanish, is one of the idimos but spoken, of the world, many pilots speak this language, for that reason I believe that he must have a translation. But I continue saying, that it will use the movements and you order them in English, because is very good for my and my team By the way, johnn mitchell, I have seen its page, good photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Totally in agreement with johnn mitchell, in the Basque country, we spoke aside from Spanish, Basque. The Spanish, is one of the idimos but spoken, of the world, many pilots speak this language, for that reason I believe that he must have a translation.But I continue saying, that it will use the movements and you order them in English, because is very good for my and my team By the way, johnn mitchell, I have seen its page, good photos. As John B and Mike have said, you agree also that; Left Right Up Down 90 (ninety) 180 (one eighty) 360 (three sixty) face or leading edge (to be decided) should be the standards used in all countries. Correct? Please don't try any calls in Basque with me. I would be totally lost. I am told that Basque has zero relation to Spanish(Castilian). Is that true? On my web site are pictures I took at Valencia in 2005 and 2006. Which one is you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 FYI, I think "leading edge" might be too close to "edges" for a foreigner... "Edges" or "to the edges" is a very common term, another we might consider for the list of English commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernan Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 As John B and Mike have said, you agree also that;Left Right Up Down 90 (ninety) 180 (one eighty) 360 (three sixty) face or leading edge (to be decided) should be the standards used in all countries. Correct? Please don't try any calls in Basque with me. I would be totally lost. I am told that Basque has zero relation to Spanish(Castilian). Is that true? On my web site are pictures I took at Valencia in 2005 and 2006. Which one is you? In agreement, with you order them. With your permission I raise to a photo yours of Valencia 2006, but “high " I am, companion of Tonet- Is certain the Basoue do not have anything to do with the Latin, nor with the Spanish, am one of the old languages but of Europe. In valence 2005, first by the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 FYI, I think "leading edge" might be too close to "edges" for a foreigner... "Edges" or "to the edges" is a very common term, another we might consider for the list of English commands. Personally I would favor "Face" for it's shortness and clarity. However, my mother language is English, so don't let me influence. I think this should be put up for polling to those whose mother language is NOT English. What English term do you think would fit best for "face" meaning "leading edge"? e.g. Face Right, Face Left, Face Down, Face Up. Ideas: Face, Leading Edge, Front, Main Edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 In agreement, with you order them. With your permission I raise to a photo yours of Valencia 2006, but “high " I am, companion of Tonet- Is certain the Basoue do not have anything to do with the Latin, nor with the Spanish, am one of the old languages but of Europe. In valence 2005, first by the right. May I presume you are referring to the right competitor in the right picture? and the upper left competitor in the left picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Herrera Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I personnaly prefer: "face" as stated by J. Mitchell. Phonetics are very important as mentioned by: J. Barresi, but in my little experience with team flying, I suggest to the pilot leaders to SPEAK OUT LOUD... man...I am not only going deaf, but if you speak the commands for yourself, only, then the other pilots will be half way guessing...??? Huu me and my big mouth... Nothing personal Jim F.-....dig. (I guess my best position would be next to the pilot leader, that way, I CAN HEEEAR YOUUU...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernan Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 May I presume you are referring to the right competitor in the right picture? and the upper left competitor in the left picture? This to use a translator, that I write? I mark to you in the photos that I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I personnaly prefer: "face" as stated by J. Mitchell. Phonetics are very important as mentioned by: J. Barresi, but in my little experience with team flying, I suggest to the pilot leaders to SPEAK OUT LOUD... man...I am not only going deaf, but if you speak the commands for yourself, only, then the other pilots will be half way guessing...??? Huu me and my big mouth... Nothing personal Jim F.-....dig. (I guess my best position would be next to the pilot leader, that way, I CAN HEEEAR YOUUU...) Actually John B brought forward first the word "face". I had suggested possibly something more known as "leading edge", despite that I would personally prefer "face". As for leading a team, I would also be to soft spoken for doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 This to use a translator, that I write? I mark to you in the photos that I am. Yes, I remember now. You are the larger and quieter one guy from Bolau. There is a picture of Bolau receiving their trophy at: http://home.arcor.de/jnmitchell/3-Photogra...DSCN8878_sm.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 To be clear, your sentiment is "leading edge left" for all kites to face left? My problem with this, it's not a literal instruction... Face left is just that, while leading edge doesn't literally specify that you're merely facing your kite a certain way. The quick command calls MUST be fairly literal, so that newer and intermediate pilots can participate. I feel very strongly about this, based on my repeated mega flies over the past year, dealing regularly with first-time and inexperienced team fliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousieo Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Being one of the inexperienced flyers.. I have to agree.. keep it simple.. its confusing enough as it is.. if I have to decifer details.. I will have the entire team on the ground. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend. We also need "Clockwise". And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise." Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that? John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I'd like to add some more figures to the next addition of the manual. Suggestions from some of our Spanish friends? They can be simple figures, even ones that are easy to explain on the field. The reason I would like to add them to the manual is to give new groups ideas of things to do. It can be hard to come up with stuff when you are calling. Examples might be mountains and valleys. It might be good to have a page of ideas. Such as forming a pyramid ( 1 by 2 by 3) and flanking around the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend. Agreed. We also need "Clockwise". Also agreed. And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise."Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that? Generally, I'll call "clockwise" or "anti"... Good calls for the manual. John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate. Fair enough. "Fall in" is an old USA team term, but follow is indeed literal, and better for international use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend. We also need "Clockwise". And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise." Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that? John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate. How are you using the word FLANK? I would go for "anti-clockwise". If I recall right the Brits use it normally and it is probably understood better. "Fall In" or "Follow"? I do believe "Follow" would be understood quicker. In Europe for example they still have little yellow and black cars(or trucks) with the sign "FOLLOW ME" on the back that they use to guide airplanes around at airports. Most everyone in Europe has flown and has seen them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteLife Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Flank = sharp corner. (i.e. flank up, flank down, flank right, etc.) I supposed you could use "corner up" etc... Makes not much difference to me, corner is more literal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnmitchell Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Flank = sharp corner. (i.e. flank up, flank down, flank right, etc.)I supposed you could use "corner up" etc... Makes not much difference to me, corner is more literal. You got me there. Let us see what the Europeans say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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